Independents

I have done a couple of searches here and found a few threads which quote independants and mainstream brands, but I havn't found a discusion on when an independant turns into a mainstream brand..?

Would the shift be the size of the company, number of employees, length of time in business, turnover, number of pieces produced, floating on the stock exchange....or AN Other..?

Would RM now be classed as mainstream...would he want to be..?  Are there any benefits to being classed as either independat or mainstream.

Personally I feel 'safer' buying mainstream brands as I know most watchmakers will be able to service them in the future, or in the case of AP, PP and a few others they will service any piece forever, assuming they stay in business.  Where do you stand with the likes of MB&F Frog or Urwerk 103's in the future....I love them, but what if in 10-20 years time it needed a service and nobody can do it.

Any thoughts....the question is when does an independant become classed as mainstream..?

Yours,

andy.

They may be but not limited to:

1) When the distribution is in every major capital in the world, they are especially mainstream if they have stand alone Boutiques with only 10 watches on display and the watch you want is sold out and they don't know anything about when and if they will get another one. To emphasis their mainstreamness, the salesperson/manager doesn't bother to take your number or details to tell you if another piece comes in, that really makes the prospective customer feel special LoooL or to piss you off into buying watches no one else wants so you can make a point on how they should KYA, either way you loose

2) All their stores are exactly the same no matter where you go just like McDonalds Yay!

3) When you email their customer service they never reply or take weeks/months to do so

4) You find their advertisements in major publications and their watches peddled by celebrities? (OMG Beibmeister wears that? I gots to have one)

5) They have the largest and most elaborate stands at trade fairs and don't let anyone in, cause they're cool like that

6) Designs and Decisions are a result of Group Think vs. One Man's Vision and Dream

And I'm sure others can add to it.

S

I think that is spot on!!

As a gauge for when an Independent is getting to a size that it's not about "A" watchmaker anymore, but rather a company of watchmakers and other administration staff, that's when #3 customer service start to be affected.

I believe true Independents have very responsive and friendly customer service from the few that I've dealt with.

but just several people assembling watches...that's a good thought.

Yours,

Andy.

and I suppose if the company still keeps going when they retire then that might make it mainstream....is part of the allure of an independant the thought that the name on the tin also assembled it..?  Unfortunately as you point out even the independants have watchmakers to assemble them too.

The more responses to this the more complex it seems to get

Yours,

Andy.

but I won't ask about which brands have done this to you..!!

It obviously isn't as cut and dry as I first thought.

Yours,

Andy.

when an independant puts thought into it.  I had noticed on RM and MB&F that they use special screws so even if a watchmaker fancies his chances he would still have to buy a special tool just to get the watch apart or even change a strap.

I'm not the only one who thinks about the future then..!

Yours,

Andy.

I am not sure there is an answer except in each aficiando's mind.  It was brought up in discussion at IGOTT2 but for the life of me, I cannot remember the answer except I remember it being rather vague.

and definately no specific answer.

I'm sure at one time PP, AP, Rolex etc were technically independant...but then got bigger and kept going.  Maybe that's what happens..?

Yours,

Andy.

but does that also mean PP, Rolex and a few others (AP.?) are therefore not mainstream..?  I don't believe they have sold out and are still run by their families...I did try to Google to find out for sure but couldn't find any actual link to either Swatch or Richemont, but may share some distribution.

Are these few then classed as 'super mainstream'..?

Yours,

Andy.

I'm beginning to think there is no clear defined cut off point....but like you say when they are thought of as a company then the name or brand surpasses the person who started it.

I think if the company stops when the person who started it retires then it was a true independant.  I'm sure there have been lots of these over the years and are just thought of as part of the history of watch production.

Cheers,

Andy.

want to be recognized as a person or as a brand (therefore mainstream). Journe is now a brand so is Urwerk but Voutilainen even if he has a team of 11-12  still would be considered as an independent as he as a person is immediately linked to his watches.

I would say that production numbers also count even though I don't know where to put the threshold.

after the original company developer, or name behind the brand, retires....then it becomes more than just the man/woman who started it..?

It appears to be a very grey area....surely the likes of AP and Rolex etc were originally independant..?  Just somebody who started to make watches..?

Yours,

Andy.

then you could say that the they have turned into a company and not a person.

Cheers,

Andy.