Horological Meandering

Post-sales service and overall ownership experience.

 

This is not a plug for any particular brand and given the recent thread on transparency.  So from the onset, I do not work for any watch brand directly or indirectly, nor do I moderate any where for any watch brand or AD or work in the watch industry (although I contribute to it J.  I am but a new and small time collector of pieces that interest me.

 

I wanted to share my very recent experience with a watch that I have and the excellent ownership experience that I am still enjoying.

 

I picked up the Chopard LUC Regulateur as a little birthday present for myself in July/August this year.  Since then, I found that it was running a tad fast and while I do know that if accuracy in a time piece is what I want, then perhaps a quartz or indeed my handphone may serve a more consistent outcome but I am finicky that way I guess.  But I digress as this is not a post about complication, finish, price etc of a watch but of the post-sales support which often plagues so many industries and whether post sales level is a consideration in your purchase.

 

I have had very good and responsive feedback to my emails from Lange in the past be it about status of my service or something as simple as a calendar which Lange kindly sent to me from their Hong Kong office.

 

I have found a brilliant testimony for the watch industry in the guise of Chopard.  As I mentioned, my Regulateur was running a tad fast and as I have had great communication with the Chopard offices in Switzerland and in Singapore in the past, I thought I’d drop them a line to request for them about the “fast” issue I had with my Regulateur.

 

Although I emailed my request to Maxime Labey, the head honcho for Chopard in these parts, I expected him to have one of his service staff to call me.  Instead, Maxime himself took personal interest in my concerns and personally arranged for me to have my watch taken in and serviced.

 

I was swiftly put in touch with Bruce Wagner who runs the Chopard service center in Singapore and 2 days or so after I emailed Maxime, Bruce was kind enough to meet with me personally for me to show him the issue I had with my watch.  I could have met with Bruce earlier or just dropped off my watch and explained via email my issue but such was my schedule and state of my horological vocabulary that I felt it better to meet and Bruce promptly and kindly accommodated. Bruce also kept me updated throughout the service interval.

 

I just picked up my watch today…actually, the watch was sent to my office today by Bruce himself despite the very heavy torrential rain this afternoon to take me through what was done and to explain the workings of the watch.  I felt a tad guilty J

 

So where am I going with all this?  I will need to monitor the watch to see if it has been regulated and serviced to COSC standards over the next week or so but this is not about that.  This is about the very personal and high level of service not just from Maxime (and not just lip service as well) as the head, but all the way down the post sales support chain and such a service culture I can tell you does not exist in many companies.

 

It’s very comforting to know that Chopard backs up its products with such fantastic, personal and prompt post-sales service, something which is taken for granted should there not be a need but can prove to be a very frustrating experience if needed and not offered.  I have experienced this for products purchased outside of the watch industry and it is enough to make me take a vow never to buy from those brands again.

 

And here’s the best part…. I am not a big customer for Chopard.  I only own a singular LUC Regulateur and not any of their fantastic tourbillons AND YET, they accord such a  standard of service.  It’s nice to know that Chopard does not discriminate by price of their watches.

 

I hold the view the Chopard is very much underrated as a watch maker especially their LUC range and they make a very good watches (some of their designs are a tad eccentric one could argue) with finishing that even rivals Patek and now I am comforted to know that they are confident enough in their product to back it up with gold, (ok since we are talking about the watch industry) no, Platinum class of service.

 

I am a person like many who develops an affinity for a brand not just based on pricing and in this instance, the level of complication or finishing but on the OVERALL OWNERSHIP EXPERIENCE.  Based on my experience with Chopard so far, I would say if I was looking at a particular complication that Chopard and another brand offered and both were equally appealing to me, my present ownership experience would tip me in favor of Chopard.

 

Now, if I bought one of their tourbillons and if it needed servicing, maybe I’d be flown to Switzerland to pick it up upon completion…… just joking Chopard.  My thanks again to Maxime, Bruce and Charlotte for this great experience.  It’s not just being good  ambassadors for Chopard, it’s about being good example for the watch industry in general.  Service is very people dependent and maybe Maxime and Bruce happened to have some free time (J) and hence could look more into my request but I do hope that this culture of enhancing ownership experience through excellent after sales service lives long at Chopard.

 

Do many of you consider post sales and ownership experience when buying a watch?

 

Once again, I do not work for anyone in the watch industry nor do I get paid by any watch company in cash or in kind or in any way.

 

Edited to amend spelling of name.

This message has been edited by SJX on 2009-11-09 06:41:29

Hi WMc,

You, my cyber friend, have hit the nail on the head.

You have touched the trigger point which differs between ... Marketing Hype ... and Horological Heritage.

You have also asked the question... why do some companies take so long to fix their mistakes.... the answer should be seen by all as.... "Because they have so many mistakes".... or .... They market Watches that do not cut it.

This is the catalyst which will see the difference between the Heritage ..... and Hype garbage..... A balance against true horology and good old fashioned service.

But let us look not at hypotheticals... let us look at real cases.

Also take one of the biggest names... and one of the youngest names and make a comparison.

But before we do.... let us reinforce to the reader, or better described as, the up and coming horological enthusiast..... let us tell them of the reality of life as a watch lover.

That is, you can have the best watch in the world.... but if it spends it's life in the makers warranty department for many months of the year.... you have to ask yourself the question. " Hello, I bought this watch... I paid the big money... it came from the factory to the Ad, and to me... How come it is now back living in the Makers factory for so many months?"

Answer .... simple.... you bought a DUD.

We have seen so many companies in recent boom times resurrect previously bankrupt horological names, almost always within the Swiss borders, to pump out some CNC unproven garbage, often with an outsourced movement, lodged in an outsourced case, and they think that by sticking a " SWISS MADE" print on the dial they have emulated the buyers interest to buy some heritage of some long lost watch maker.

Guess what... many times they succeeded.

We have seen so many take overs of watch names by multinationals.... to result in absolute corporate globleglockle P.R....... and no real service to after market problems.

We have seen so many new watches using universal semi adjusted movements, offering unproven reliability and fail within short periods.

We now see as almost a daily excuse and acceptance... by the statement that " This is a dress watch... and you should not wear this while golfing or playing sport..... or maybe walking???"

I always thought a good watch was a watch that performed as the wearer did. Today many watches are show ponies..... and are now accepted as "Dress Watches"... whatever that means.

Yet.... we have seen some real stayers..... who have continuously produced great products.... of timeless perfection to uphold the tradition that Swiss watch making has established.

Every now and then...... all these makers send out a watch which fails to meet the expectation of the maker.... and the end user.

And this is where your question comes into play.

Bottom line is.... what is the use of a watch if it is back in the makers factory?

What is the use of a watch if it does not work?

What is the strength of a watch maker, who can not fix their mistakes in a timely manner?

Heaps of hype and absolutely no back up service is about as useful as a Politicians Promise.

But let us not talk about generalizations.... let us stick to facts.

How about respondents of this post write about the makers who stand by their Marketing Hype... and those that don't.

Tell us about your experience... save other enthusists from making the mistake of getting sucked in by Hype that does not deliver back service.

Talk about the good and the bad of our passion, because the only way to get the Hype makers performing.... is to expose their inadequacies.

Let me get the ball rolling by a couple of examples.

BREGUET.... bought three Gold Breguets in the last two years.... sold one.... the other two are in warranty service ... one has been in twice this year (away for about 7 months in real time)

Just imagine buying a new car.... ( you could for the price of this Breguet) ..... and it breaks down and the maker takes 7 months to try and fix it... and does not offer a replacment car... HELLO.... How many people would buy a car from that maker in the future?????

Wakeeee... Wakeeeee ... Wake up Breguet..... get your act together or buyers will not wast their time..... buying your time..!!! .....because you have no idea of repair time.... Wakeeee Wakeeee.

Breguet have lost the plot and I would think that any Breguet buyer who reads these posts / reviews should certainly not buy a Breguet... if they consider your question about follow up service.

But, not to be totally negative about watch makers.... I love watches.... I just hate Carpetbaggers.

I bought a Martin Braun EOS a couple of months ago.

Great watch, but a problem with a heap of lint or cotton under the dial.... I complained... I was very disappointed... very.... they responded... gave me their Fed-ex Account number... asked me to send the watch back.... offered pick up service, insurance and return Fed-ex ....etc .

They promised a 48 hour turn around in their factory to fix the problem..... and guess what?

Martin Braun excelled and turned it out of their factory in less at 24 hours... that watch travelled from Australia to Switzerland and Back to Australia in 10 days.

How good was that? Hello Mr Breguet... are you reading? Probably not.... probably all of your staff are in a staff meeting... discussing ways to sell more watches. Such is the life in big business!

And this is what it is all about. We buy mechanical watches.... some have a few problems.... the pain can be very disappointing..... but it can be fixed very quickly with good after sales service.... or it can be seriously prolonged by prima-donnas who talk the talk...... but do nothing.

So to all the prima-donnas who state that they are carrying on the heritage and tradition of their long dead masters.... I say, get with the times... we do not travel by ship any more... we have aircraft.... forget the 1800's heritage stuff... and just use Fed-ex and fix our watches and do it in a timely manner.

Unless of course your particular brand has so many returns.... that it takes many months to maintain your problem products.

AH.... but fellow Forum readers.... don't you just love the internet.... and all the makers thought that this was going to be their door to world exposure.... well it is.

Exposure to the genuine makers who do the right thing... and Exposure to the slackers who pull down the ethical standards of horology.

Your post hit on a very important part of our Passion .... many thanks.

Kindest regards to all,

Jack

Check out a previous post of mine on the Chopard forum:

chopard.watchprosite.com

Long story short: Purchased a Chrono One over the summer. A few weeks later there were issues with the date wheel. Sent the watch in to Chopard NYC. They called back and told me rather than have me wait to have it repaired back in Switzerland they would replace it!

Case 2: I had a Pro One diver that was recently past its warranty period. It needed service. Not only did Chopard service it for free I had it back in my hands in about 2 weeks.

I'm glad to hear that their approach to customer service is global!

Whilst it’s probably wise to skip over a little bit the clear disappointment / anger you have towards Breguet and the way they have handled your servicing issues, I really agree with your post and find it to be very important.

 

It’s become way too easy to sell watches – the deadly Quartz wars are now over (for now…) and the industry has seen a Phoenix-like resurgence leading to greed and fast money… cue the countless pointless pieces with a little extra color, dial re-format or useless complication…

 

However, as these “loadsamoney” buyers move on to the next glitzy bauble they covet (maybe wine, maybe Chinese modern art, maybe bottle caps) we see (or will see) a major re-adjustment for some brands… at that point, customer service and after-sales service will pay dividene… except for those companies which have long forgotten about even the basics.

 

I’ve been drooling over a Breguet La tradition for a while and almost pulled the trigger recently but various reports, including yours, have made me question my choice. I don’t buy many pieces each year and would be terribly disappointed if a new and expensive piece had to go to service shortly after purchase… so I’m holding off… maybe it matters to this and other companies, maybe it doesn’t… but at some stage a critical mass of discontent will make it count.

Thank you AFSG for your reply.... and agreement in principal.

I think giving praise to the Chopards and Martin Brauns who do give exemplary service and screaming loudly about those that give abysmal service is tour only way to get heard.

We obviously enjoy our watches otherwise we would not even be reading this Forum..... it would be nice to enjoy the after sales service.

Kindest regards,

Jack

 Thanks a lot for pointing out mate , true watches world had it kind of bubble, and yes those ones who pushed the brands  lets call them spenders X who encouraged the brands to go on with their greed to mass production, to useless complications in a watch and tag it with space age   like  price.

 

 luxury over all is reforming, and in this case its of watches, watch makers are  waking up from the drift away from the essence" i hope" , so lets see how this reformation  will go in luxury over all and in watches in particular.

 

 by the way our big spender friends are now into cheese world .

 

 Faisal

 

 

I have always been quite fortunate in terms of reliability of the watches i've bought, but i've had one or two problems and I think that after sales service is an area where the industry is HUGELY LACKING. I can vouch for the excellence of Chopard's after sales service and the Sowind Group brands have always been good to me, Zenith is another good one.

But I think that when comparing the watch and car industries, which I think is quite a fair comparison, there is a huge question mark hanging over the watch industry as to why after sales repairs take so loooooooooooooooooooooooooong. The answer lies in the lack of qualified watch makers and unfortunately when it comes to the high volume brands, the more money you spend, the better your watch, the fewer qualified watchmakers and therefore the longer it will take to repair!!

Crazy world! The current situation just isn't good enough.

Dan

have had excellent service from Chopard. I sent in a watch for normal service, and it came back defective (I no longer remember details). I called them and was immediately told "Here's our FedEx acct, overnight it to us, we'll have it back to you within 2 weeks" Not only did it come back, fixed, in under 2 weeks but they included a free strap. Not only did they include a free strap, but they noticed that I was wearing my watch at the second to last hole, and so made the free strap short, so it would fit better.

A

Hi Danny,

If a shortage of watch makers is the reason we get slow service.... how come there are enough watch makers to make the product.... but not enough to fix it?

Surely this is a management problem related to resource allocation.

Sorry Danny, I don't buy this.

I am into manufacturing... and if I have a problem, I fix it before I put out more product, otherwise I loose my good reputation which I have built up over many years.

Kindest regards,

Jack

In an ideal world, such problems would be sorted before production continues, so to some degree you are right, but i imagine that your reputation is dependant on your product and not on millions of pounds worth of marketing an apparent 'reputation' as is sadly often the case in this industry.

Regarding your second point, it has become apparent to me over the years that to assemble a watch requires a watchmaker of a certain ability, but to diagnose and efficiently (cost and time effective) repair a complicated watch requires a watchmaker of a totally different level of expertise. And when dealing with a high volume brand as oppose to a small watch house (your experience with Breguet and MB is a perfect example) the larger brands just don't have enough expert watchmakers to deal with the number of watches coming back from their mass production.

So, i'd say it's down to initial manufacturing and an inability to deal with the volume of repairs. I know of one UK based service center that have poached two watchmakers from Japan and two from Portugal, because there just isn't enough watchmakers of the required skill level!!!

Dan

No message body

I have disposed of two very fine and difficult to replace watches after having excessive difficulty with getting service for them. In one case I took a large loss but I didn"t care: I just couldn"t face the thought of continuing to try to get the company to make it right.

Hi Mkvc,

But why not name the watches, so that the makers start to get their act together, and also to help new watch lovers not to make the same mistake.

Why is there an unbalanced view in posts which name and praise the good guys...... but hide or omit the poor performing brands identity ?

The squeaky wheel is the one that gets the oil.

Kindest regards,

Jack

At least in one of the two cases. In that case the company tried repeatedly to fix the watch, gave me relatively quick service, gave me a gift to palliate my unhappiness, etc. I ended up with great respect for the company in all matters except that they could not get my watch to run properly.

In the other case, the company did not try hard. It was a simple matter of getting a bracelet link and it took several months for them to provide a link without the required screw and another long period just to get the screw. I learned that that was consistent with the reputation of the company, and when my watch needed service I just decided to sell it instead of going through the pain I knew the service process would cause. However, since all that actually happened to me was not having the link I needed (which admittedly prevented me from wearing the watch), I do not feel that I am fully qualified to "name names."

Really, why not name these companies - what qualifications do you require?

It would serve two purposes - flag them as having servicing issues and allow others to maybe come forward with their own woes... or actively dispel these issues if indeed yours where isolated (or blown out) incidents...

Assuming what happened to you was indeed as you state, there can be, IMHO, no harm in sharing these stories.

 

Hi AFSG,

I think there are problems with dragging a brand through the mud on this forum, even if it is well deserved.  First, it's not possible for the reader of the posts to verify the truthfulness of the complaints, which are coming mostly from anonymous posters not using their real names.  Second, some brands monitor the forums but it would be easy for them to miss these public complaints; it's not exactly fair when we hear only one side of the story.  Another issue is that airing (potentially unwarranted) complaints will not make things easier for the Purists, who would need to patrol the complaints and subsequent discussions to make sure they're fairly conducted.  And lastly, to your point about assumptions:

"Assuming what happened to you was indeed as you state, there can be, IMHO, no harm in sharing these stories."

The assumption is the deal killer here.  We don't know if it's true or not, nor are we sure we're getting the whole story.  A lot of harm can come from sharing these stories, which is why I much prefer MKVC's approach.  It's fair.

Best regards,

Jeff

Hi J,

Your argument comes across often, by a few.... but I and many others believe that it is misguided in that, this is a Forum about watches and all relevance pertaining to the different makes and models.

Service, be it good or bad, is very relevant to a watch, or any product. Service is critical to most commodities in these modern times as virtually every item we buy today is way beyond the average consumers ability to fix.... as say compared to the more simple age of 50 years past.

As globalization, especially enjoyed by multinationals, has engulfed the world, every international company has had to establish and maintain a world wide service network.

Mercedes do it, Toyota do it, Sony do it, Seiko do it.

What is the difference with watch makers, why should we expect that they not do it?

To produce more product than you have the ability to service is a total disregard for your consumer and your future.

I see no need to discourage a Name & Shame attitude..... no more than I see a need to qualify, a Raise & Praise of a makers achievements, to ascertain if it is from a genuine customer, or a company rep covertly promoting their product by deceit..... as I am sure happens from time to time.

Chopard is the winner of this Thread as the lead Post's M.O.of Chopard has been confirmed by many subsequent posts... many written by names any regular reader recognizes..... so one assumes that the Chopard reputation for good after sales service is true.

Bottom line is, if I say Breguet service is lousy compared to experiences I have had with other companies, then let Breguet defend their reputation by proving me wrong...... fix the problems... and get my watches back to me.... or deny they have them in Switzerland.

They could do this all of these things.... but they have done non.

Because you are correct, Makers do read this forum.

Breguet Switzerland are aware of my writings and disappointment.

The very next day after I lodged a September post on this forum about my Breguet Marine having to go back again for a stuck rotor... and that my Breguet Reveil du Tsar was already back in Switzerland, I had an email from Breguet in Switzerland stating they had been reading my Post, their hearing that my marine watch had to be returned again, and after a period of email exchanges promised they would expedite my repair of my Marine and do what they could to get my 5707 back as quickly as possible so I had at least one Breguet watch to wear.

The last correspondence I had from Breguet was October the 3rd.... 32 days ago. They advised that they had now inspected my 5707... it did have some excess oil from the winder which had hardened and was moving around in the movement. They also stated the rest of the watch was fine.

So the question is about large companies .... even if they are aware of a problem... are they geared up to fix it.

I would think some are not... on the 5707 alone... 32 days after detecting a problem... that is not the total time the watch has been away , but the time lapsed after detecting the problem.

I would think it is long enough to get it back to the customer.

So to discourage readers to 'drag the brand through the mud on this forum' ...... I disagree.

This Forum is possibly one of the best tools for promotion of high end watches available to the makers.

Chopard are not concerned about members / consumers writings.... and neither should Breguet... if they can match Chopard.

It is up to the readers to make a judgement if writings about the Breguet after sales service is true... or not true... the same as it is up to the readers to make a judgment on Chopard.

Kindest regards,

Jack

You make some good arguments and I'm still totally against it. 

Ultimately it's up to TM and the management of this site to determine what they want to see on these forums.  So far they seem willing to let a certain amount of venting occur (like yours and others) and that's cool by me.  Also bear in mind that I'm not suggesting that information not be shared between friends, but that perhaps PM and e-mail would be a better choice for letting it all hang out so that the forum doesn't lose it's friendly vibe, something that I think is lacking in the average can-you-believe-what-they-did-to-me posts.

Best regards,

Jeff

I love it when the "layman" sees things in black and white.

I hate it when I have to see shades of grey; I too would love to see things in black and white. It would make my life SOOOO much easier.

True story - someone (a prominent internet citizen) dropped his Very Expensive Chronograph Tourbillon on his marble floor. It "broke."

He wrote an email to the CEO of the brand (a brand who's CEO was an early adoptor of the internet, a very progressive and daring thing to do) - "Dear Mr. Xxxyyy,

I dropped my tourbillon chronograph on my marble floor and it broke.

I know this is not covered by warranty, but I'd like you to repair it or replace it.

If you don't, I am very well known on the various internet forums and will destroy your brand."

The brand CEO refused to be blackmailed; he might have, asked more humbly and politely, considered something to ameliorate the situation.

The internetizen started his blackmail; he was very smooth and tricky about it. If I didn't know the backstory a priori, it might have even sucked me into it.

As I knew the backstory, every post by that person was deleted on sight, and for a period of time thereafter, I was "on guard" for any negative posts against that brand.

EVERY brand has had good, glorious stories to it; every brand has had horror stories attached to it.

I know of several individuals who had horrible experiences with Martin Braun; Jack now has one positive.

EVERY brand has both good and bad consumer experience story to them.

I repeat - EVERY brand.

So now what?

But like watch accuracy - "if I need to know the accurate time, I'd use my cell phone."

Really? So a watch company can be sloppy in their work and basic raison d'etre and ship crappy product that doesn't "keep good time?" Is that REALLY what we want to tell the watch brands?

Likewise, I am very aware that not allowing any airing of LEGITIMATE bad experiences might send the wrong message to the brands, that it is okay to have crappy SAV.

So, it's a matter of balance.

And that balance point has to be decided by first, the moderators, and second, the executive management of this site.

This thread has been allowed to continue.

Not every one will be.

We represent neither the self-righteous or self-important consumer, nor the avaricious and irresponsible brand.

And we owe nothing to either.

We would like to exhort the serious, responsible, and fair.

Both on the sell side, and on the buy side.

Funny how those on the buy side only see the buy side, and those on the sell side only see the sell side.

Thanks, Jeff, you've been around a long time around here and I appreciate it.

TM

Hi Jeff,

Thank you for your comments, agree we can never verify the veracity of an online story – it’s a tough call.

But then what is the alternative…? Never mention anything other than unicorns and rainbows? I think there is a fundamental difference of perspective here – either the site is about posting pictures of watches and congratulating each others on the latest purchase, never challenging an industry which, in some parts*, has now turned greedy, over-fed and arrogant or it is about Passion Opinion and Information.

Opinions should be expressed with courtesy and ethic but also factually – if after spending a considerable amount by any (but the most jaded) standards, one has to encounter poor, unresponsive service, then one should feel that sharing that experience isn’t “tolerated venting” but is actually a positive and relevant contribution to a site recognized for its integrity. I do agree having a lot of "this is what happened to me" stories is not a desirable outcome... but maybe TM's "head scratchers" deserve a permanent space to encompass a little spirited debate on some of the goings-on of an industry we follow so intimately.

Just my 2 cents of course....

Cheers

 

AFSG

* and in others is creating an amazing lean, driven and focus model, with the likes of MB&F and others....

This message has been edited by AFSG on 2009-11-10 21:38:57

You have asked exactly the question(s) that we (site mods, executives) constantly wrestle with.

Thank you for understanding that it is no easy, black and white task.

As evidence that we do recognize the various facets of this complex issue, note that this thread has stayed open.

Many of the points made, especially the abstract points and principles, are important and ones we agree with.

But like all human interactions, high and pure ideals are often soiled or perverted in the execution.

We are not so arrogant to think we have the "right way" all the time, but we do try.

Thanks, and cheers,

TM

Greetings:

This was posted on another forum when a member had complained that he paid for a watch that was just released, it did not work and it was returned and held for repair for a many, many months.  The brand name was replaced with question marks, because the specific brand is not important.  What is important is how we have allowed ourselves to be treated.

Pardon me if the lawyer in me is showing, but I think it very unfair that when people pay $50K+ for a watch and then have it die on them a month later.  And then to add insult to injury, to have to wait around and hope that Mr. ???????? will return the watch back in working order in a hurry and be understanding to your situation is very insulting and offensive to me personally.

I know that it is a new watch and I know that Mr. ???????? is a nice guy and a lead independant, etc., etc., etc.  And you feel lucky to even have a watch of that standard.  But you have paid enough for the watch to buy a fairly nice car!

Now imagine that you walked into a car show room and paid cash for a car and in one month, it did not work.  How would you feel if the dealer told you to leave the car and we will try to have it fixed as soon as we figure out what is wrong with it?  So you gave the dealer $50K+ and you are left with a memory of a watch until you get it back!  Nonsense.

The dealer would be required to give you a loaner car at the very least.  There are warranties and rights that consumers have.  Why should those rights and warranties go out the window just because you bought a watch, instead of a car?  You paid as much, if not more.

Now I know this is a site devoted to the beauty of watches and the pleasure that they give us, but the manufacturers are responsible to us when they take such huge sums of money.

Thanks for listening to my rant.  I get pissed off when I read that very faithful watch aficionados are treated in this fashion.

The people who purchase first in a watch's cycle should not be punished, they should be rewarded when they help "debug" a new watch.

Sincerely - Mark

then you might have the same service experience with the car as with these watches.

I offer this only as I have experience with L***s, a reasonably successful engineering firm and a long-time, small-scale automaker (and former F1 World Champion).

While it's reassuring and quite fun to be able to speak to the president of the company, or to go to the factory and share a beer with the man who calibrated the suspension, or get an autograph from the designer, it's a pain when you have a small problem that they are unable to solve. Not unwilling, but unable to execute down through their recalcitrant dealer chain or across departments.

Years ago, I was told this company had bought back 2-3 samples of my car under the US Lemon Law provisions - unable to sort out the problem in 3 or 4 visits. In all those cases, it was due to water leaks. I can confirm that my car leaks like a sieve, but then I don't really care because of all the things it does well. However, I live where it hardly ever rains. But if I want to stop the leaks, a new set of rubber window and top seals are available - at over $1000!

I have had 3 of this brand before, and so am accustomed to pain and disappointment in their cosmetic features. As I say, I still appreciate the performance capabilities. But I've become convinced not to buy a new one, just because I would rather talk to a first owner, have a look at how the car has stood up to use for a couple years, etc. I'd rather someone else take care of the warranty relationship with the source. And I can't stand the local dealer.

In the watch industry, there are nowhere near enough service people or parts distribution channels. Monopoly is held by the manufacturers. (Only we know it, only we can service it, you can't touch it, you will ruin it, etc.) Also the products are fragile, the pipelines can be very long and very slow, etc. We don't know the relationships of our dealer with the factory rep, the working quotas or labor allocations at the factories, the inability to get existing orders out (much less produce spare parts to fix your watch), and so on.

Every watch that comes back is a declaration that all their design, QC, fine tolerances, attention to detail, etc FAILED. And they too FAILED. And so to keep one's morale up, addressing the FAILURE is put off til it's unavoidable. That's what I imagine, anyway.

I sound like an apologist, but I don't mean to be excusing any particular watch companies - just saying this is a complex, international business where customer service often does not call the shots in the home office or in the field. I don't see any particular reason that it will change.

Alas.

Mike

Hello Mike:

The level of rarity should have nothing to do with it.  While in law school, I sued Renault/AMC for a car that had 3 or 4 engines and 3 or 4 transmissions replaced.  It certainly did qualify under New York State's "Lemon Law".  I am not sure in what state you reside.  I won at arbitration and then all of the car companies banded together against me, and dragged me into NYS Supreme Court to challenge the constitutionality of NY's New Car Lemon Law.  Bottom line, they lost and I won.  One of the happiest days of my life was to watch them put that car on a flatbed truck and take it away.  They also gave me a full refund of my purchase price.

People on this forum, (like myself) love watches.  But sometimes people who buy watches are exposed to this kind of shabby treatment from high end watch companies and think that it is the norm, it is okay and it is the way it should be, because they are used to it.  I disagree.

Now I know that some of the manufacturers reading my post will not be happy reading it because I am right.

I have no professional interest in this issue at all.  I no longer do that kind of consumer protection work.  I am just tired of hearing about how some of my friends here are being treated by the watch companies and how long it takes to get a new watch repaired.

Mark

requirements when new watch sales begin to drop because of poor service.
The last few years have been a wonderful time for makers of mechanical watches--they have prospered beyond belief. Somewhere along the way they figured out that they could continue to sell watches regardless of the service they provided. So, guess what? Service was neglected by many.
Only when customers demand good service as a part of the original sale will things improve.

Service will not improve until sales get hit as a result of potential customer not buying cause of future servicing fears.

Cheers,
Anthony

. . . partly because a $50K vehicle is most likely owned by the dealership that leased it to you, or the financial institution that serviced the loan. Not too many of us would put a $50K watch on a credit card, so for the most part, the equivalent watch purchase is hard money out the door, and there's a degree of separation between seller and buyer which, of course, works to the sellers benefit in the event of a dispute. A watch dealer or manufacturer can walk away from a $50K customer with much less apprehension than a car dealer or manufacturer simply because they're not as vested in the process. Also, today's $50K car customer is very likely to be 20014's $70K car customer because cars wear out and have to be replaced; today's $50K watch customer is as likely to be investing in fine art or race horses in the future as buying another watch.

More to the point, though, is the existence of specialized service departments at car dealerships, in marked contrast to the very limited service available at even the most elaborate and well-funded watch stores. Automobile service and repair is usually performed by the dealer that sold the car, so they have an interest in providing the best possible service; in my experience, that's the main characteristic that car dealerships can use to differentiate themselves from the competing dealership a few miles away. As for watches, the more specialized and complicated they are, the more likely the need for service in Switzerland or Germany. There's simply no getting around it, gents . . . the expectations we have of our transportation can't be transferred to our watches because they are fundamentally different types of commodities. The day we get service like Honda's is the day we begin leasing our watches from emporiums with consumer rights written into the contracts . . . dyspeptically, Art

A great story and post – I wholeheartedly agree with your overall point of view... I do note however you emailed the CEO right away... was that due to some sort of pre-established contact? If so, not quite the "man-in-the-street" option.

I'm sure Chopard would have responded somewhat in the same way overall but still, it must have helped to go straight to the top.

Some time ago, while I was still a man-in-the-street, before I became a man-in-a-forum, I had some issues with my Chopards (I had two LUCs), and they fixed the the issues quickly. One was under warranty, the other was not, but because the issue was a known problem with the movement design, Chopard fixed both for free and even gave me a free strap. My contact with them was initiated through a generic email address on their website; they got back to me fast.

- SJX