Comments:
The Panerai market is dead
and tbh it's sad cause I still like Panerai
But look at these .. Once popular, sought after and had a huge fanbase
Right now an Antiquorum auction is happening in Hongkong ..some results
or should I say EXTREMELY disappointing results
But look at these .. Once popular, sought after and had a huge fanbase
Right now an Antiquorum auction is happening in Hongkong ..some results
or should I say EXTREMELY disappointing results
That's ALL FEES included around 3.100 euro for a Panerai 232
The 232 is a LE from 2 decades ago and is imo still one of their real ICON
The 232 is a LE from 2 decades ago and is imo still one of their real ICON
THE 372, just under 4K euro all included
It's a watch with a retail price around 10.000 euro
So 60% UNDER list .... for a brand that used to keep value damn well
It's a watch with a retail price around 10.000 euro
So 60% UNDER list .... for a brand that used to keep value damn well
3.600 for this titanium submersible from early 2000
4.100 euro for a Marina Militare LE 1000 pieces from 2014
The company didn’t do themselves any favours…
Too many shenanigans, not the least with the PAM318 “Brooklyn Bridge” movement fiasco. I used to be a fan of their vintage pieces, not so much any longer. As far as I’m concerned, the brand reputation is dead.
I still like a lot of the older classic styled Panerais.
But after having a loyal if not fanatical fan base they made a few too many errors of judgement that really rubbed their fans up the wrong way. As already mentioned above my post the Pam 318 Brooklyn Bridge issues really left a bad taste in many people's mouths as well as the release of the first Bronzo and a declaration of it will be the only bronze watch ever released and we all know what happened next. I also think that there is in fact a move towards smaller watches for now and that has an effect but who knows just what the future will hold. But for now at least if you buy what you love and you love some of the Pam's it seems you may get one at a really great price.
Marc
Great! Sounds like a buyer’s market.
I was frustrated back in the day trying to buy Panerai watches.
Now, those watches are available at reasonable prices. What is not to like?
Personally, I am happy we are beyond the hype that amplifies prices.
Now, if you bought Panerai as an investment, then this current market is a total disaster.
The ebb and flow of the market is to be expected and enjoyed. Patience is a virtue.
Now, those watches are available at reasonable prices. What is not to like?
Personally, I am happy we are beyond the hype that amplifies prices.
Now, if you bought Panerai as an investment, then this current market is a total disaster.
The ebb and flow of the market is to be expected and enjoyed. Patience is a virtue.
Exactly!
I'm here to *get* watches, not to sell them. At these prices I'm thinking I might get myself another Panerai soon!
sometime ago I read in this forum about some this auction house
by one of our moderators so not sure I would give it too much credibility and visibility. Buyers of vintage/used watches usually buy the seller (or the auction house)
I agree, these are incredibly weak results.
But a couple of observations in no particular order:
- These are watches that never should have seen auction. There was never an “auction market” for a 323 or 372. Seller should have sold them to the dealer.
- Results tends have been weak all season, but in pockets. Take a look at some Lange results over the last several months, or DeBethune. Perhaps weak is not the right description, maybe more so those watches are finding their true levels after several years of inflated results.
- On the contrary we are still seeing some surprisingly strong results, take a look at Journe from the recent HK auctions. Some really crazy and nonsensical results (run of the mill Centigraphe HKD2.6m, even the Vagabondage II (a watch I own and love) HKD2.2m).
- Auctions are always unpredictable, it only takes two bidders to get to these levels for the Journes, or in the case of the Panerai, Lange, DeBethune only one bidder.
- I do think large in your face watches are being avoided in many places these days. That will impact AP, Panerai etc. Regarding AP Offshores, I do think that market has long been weak.
No question the market overall is wreaking. For US$50K you could have bought yourself any one of four Patek Rare Handcrafts Birds of Paradise (cloisonné enamel) or a JLC Master Grande Tradition A Repetition Minutes.
Buyers be ready.
I assumed those rare handcrafts would go for a lot more than they did. Wish I paid attention but I rationalize it by saying I didn't like the case
The writing has been....
on the wall for donkey's ears. I've given away (as gifts) 3 pieces a long while ago (232, 249, 587). I decided to gift them rather that peddling them away for a song and a dance. Panerai has been at it (the systematic demolition of "collectors'" pieces) for quite few years already. That and the ridiculous bubble that was created by, unscupulous grab-the-money-and-run, speculators. All that happened BEFORE buyers, started to look inside the watches. Inane people like ME, bought the history. Others, a lot more knowledgeable about time pieces, didn't squander money on ETA equipped ones. No big deal, as far as I'm concerned. Nobody's going to jump off buildings, like when the tulips or the real estate or Wall Street "bubbles" burst 
I'll keep on the ones I have and that I like a lot......still. Ciao
I'll keep on the ones I have and that I like a lot......still. Ciao
The Panerai watches that are true to their roots are very desirable but they made numerous mistakes with pricing and marketing. I bought a 372 when it first came out, not long after I bought
it they lowered the price of the watch (just one example)! It was like they had cracked the Rolex-PP-AP value code and then began to make one mistake after another. Oddly the only one I've ever owned that continued
to hold value really well did not have an in-house movement. It was a pam 176 with a very nicely dolled up ETA-Unitas. Unfortunately I sold it to help pay for my 372 (!) which I eventually let go of due to it's size.
I've owned a couple in the past and still think they are pretty cool watches especially the Radiomir.
My gripe with them was too many models that looked almost identical. And of course a couple of the so-called limited edition in house fiascos.
The Paneraistis were an interesting group/cult but I guess fan clubs can be somewhat of a trendy thing after a while.
The watches though are still an iconic design, even if Arnold and Sly have slipped into senior citizen territory. lol
WoW......
...ehmm Paneristi still exist. Arnold and Sly meant (and still mean) very little to a Panerai lover. That being said, guys like me, are kind of happy the whole 3 rings circus burned up, now we can go back to our...beloved...catacombs and carry on with our passion
Have owned a number …
… over the years, and very much like the older ones like the 127 Fiddy, but fear I may let it go, but only due to it being a bit large on me as I get older 😂
Generally 40mm is the sweet spot for me (and 39mm for dress watch)
That said I do have a couple Panerais that I very much enjoy wearing. And lately, going against the grain (I guess) I’ve been coming around to the idea of an Offshore.
It shows where the market is heading.
I am not surprised by these results.
Never owned a Panerai, 190G is the only one I am interested in getting.