ztirual
1269
I is OK to disagree
My humble taste for new (4%) and vintage (96%) watches tells me so.
They are most often those very first models that have defined the brands DNA.
It is very logical. You have to start somewhere to define these codes and it is at those MKI that it really happens.
Example abound. I (yes I site "I") will always prefer a A series AP RO to what came after, A PP Nautilus 3700-01 to the models that came after. Those the designer's, the concept or very intentions. After, things evolve along with fashion and technology and, in my humble opinion. inevitably, there is already an erosion of what was at the core of the watch.
There are, off course exceptions, as always. This reasoning does not apply to watches were there were many reference made. For example the Longines 13ZN and #=CH. There is is every single reference that is a new model. Those were the days where brands would not just satisfy themselves with small incremental changes and sound their trumpet… Another story.
Again, it is OK to disagree.
Best
Z'
Maybe it is better for me to leave this thread...
old datograph vs up down
i am reading a lot about the merits of the original datograph on this forum. As a prospective buyer of the up down, i didn't understand this as i thought all the changes were for the better; i.e. the power reserve indicator, deletion of roman numerals, in...
Mechanically, the new one. Aesthetically, the old one, by far.
The flaws of the first one were its strength. A bit thick for its size, not very comfortable on the wrist, but it had charm and character. The new one? Well, its dial looks weird, a bit empty, it lacks charm, it is not the icon the first was, in my opinio...
I just posted these photos a moment ago somewhere else
so I hope no one minds it again. I LOVE the 39mm Dato Flyback! Would it be nice to have a power reserve? Yes it absolutely would, BUT, ill give it up for this one. The dial layout, the size, the feel on the wrist, and you just cant argue with this... ...
Up Down for me but not a judgement
The UD is an evolution of the Old one. I've been loving the Old one in the past (in spite of the fact it is much heavy for my thin wrist and thus uncomfortable), then the UD was presented, and I was still liking the Old one for a while. But after maybe 6 ...
The original.
Mostly for the diameter; but I do like the lay-out better, and I find the UD indicator unnecessary.
It's personal
I trust you have seen both in the metal and tried them on your wrist. The Datograph can feel a little top heavy on the wrist. This is probably due to the height/thickness of the watch which some feel is a little too much relative to the watch case diamete...
I belong to the category of people who strongly believe that the new version is successful
Why? Because Lange took a lot of care by doing it. The date display was proportionnaly enlarged to create again the perfect triangle with the counters. The power reserve indicator is almost invisible because our eyes are always attracted by the white comp...
the first one is an icon, the second one is
not. There is the sale man's view and there is the collector's view. I would think that most amateurs with a feel for vintage would always go for the original model of virtually any watch model. Some lead other follow. Buying a luxury watch is not like bu...
Saying 39mm is a perfect size is non sense.
Sorry to write this but with such short cuts lead to nothing. Perfect size for what? For your wrist? Mine? For any watch? This one? If we start to write definitive comments, we will not have a lot of things to say on the forum. In a collecting point of vi...
Dear FX
Off course I only expressing my personal opinion. The size comment was just added as an aside. Aren't we asked to take part for one or another model? Truly sorry if I have hurt feelings. Z'
Nowadays this is the "Vintage" legitimacy which is considered automatically what is best
it is like the "bien-pensance" we see very much about morale, etc... It is sometimes impossible to discuss or be objective: one element should automatically rule all the others without discussion. In watchmaking when it is vintage it is automatically cons...
Sorry Mark
The question was simply the old vs. the new. The original or an evolution? I prefer t he original and I have very hard to see any situation where it is the opposite. I think there is more substance in what I say than the caricature you make of it. There i...
Touchy subject
This is not really but it depends on the approach. When you say: "There is the sale man's view and there is the collector's view" "would think that most amateurs with a feel for vintage would always go for the original model of virtually any watch model. ...
I think I totally disagree with your sentence Z'
"I would think that most amateurs with a feel for vintage would always go for the original model of virtually any watch model." This doesn't mean it is the more interesting or the best one. This would mean the older one is always considered to be the nice...
"I think we may judge a watch compared to its time and to the brands DNA."
I totally agree, and that is why some like Z and myself prefer the old one. The dial was perfect. Iconic. The case, well, it would have been the same, one or two millimeters more, no problem, for me, an improved movement, why not, who would complain, but ...
That is something I can perfectly understand
More than on an aesthetical standpoint, comparing the new one with what the old one has built will always lead to an evolution we might see as positive or not. I usually try to see every new pieces on a stand alone basis, without comparing it to the exist...
"Don't touch the dial"...
Here is the main point of disagreement with you. I agree that the first dial is perfect. It is not the reason to duplicate it. Now, imagine that Lange issues exactly the same watch with 2mm more. I would find this VERY disappointing and let's face it: LAZ...
I is OK to disagree
My humble taste for new (4%) and vintage (96%) watches tells me so. They are most often those very first models that have defined the brands DNA. It is very logical. You have to start somewhere to define these codes and it is at those MKI that it really h...
No, no, don't leave this thread, it is a superb discussion.
your point is perfectly advocated. Yes, with the first version, we most always have the idea, the concept behind the watch. The evolution may be tasty, appealing, successful, but it is, by far, not always the case. I agree on the fact, that, most often, t...
A forum without this kind of discussion will be boring, won't it?
This is the kind of discussion that make peolpe think and I'm happy you participate to that discussion Z. When you say the first models define the DNA, I disagree because I personally think that the DNA is not built one and for all with the 1st models but...
In your Dato search, don't forget
to have a look at a pre-owned Dato/perpetual. Best of all.
I saw the new gray-dial Dato Perp in NYC last week...
... and was really impressed with it. I was never a big fan of gray-dial watches or of the Dato Perp (though I might like it more if I had corrected vision!), but this latest iteration is a sweet piece.
Comparing just the aesthetics..
I find pluses for both.. For me the plus points are : 1st Gen - Roman numerals that make out a triangle, which balances the date and subdials 2nd Gen - better height x diameter proportion - the lugs look more proportionate - cleaner minute/subminute marki...
I wonder what everyone's comments would be if
The new one did not have the power reserve, and if the Romans were put in its place. Then, it seems you gain the better fitting and proportions due to size but retain the strengths of the first gen. I would like to see them side by side to get a feel. Bes...
In that case, that would be different for me. The power reserve kills the concept of the
Datograph, in my opinion. The holy triangle, which is THE genius idea behind the watch, is broken, ruined, murdered with this insignificant power reserve indicator. What is Datograph? Date + ChronoGRAPH. What is the new one? Datauphabgraph. Not the same, ...
I don't agree with you.
The power reserve is so shy that you can hardly see it. Where do you see that the triangle is not preserved anymore? Fx
So, if it is so shy, why putting it on the dial?
The original triangle turns into a weird losange....
To add something new without spoiling the triangle...
It is the reason why the new version is successful... Creating exactly the same Datograph with 2mm more would have been disappointing from Lange. At the end, everybody is happy. The first Datograph can be found and the new one brings some differences. It ...
Didn't mean to get the two of you going head to toe!
I think in the end, Fx is right. Each camp can choose. There are surely enough used original around at fabulous prices. So, save a few bucks and get a second Lange! Best Joe
Yes and it is not the first nor the last time we don't agree!
And I hope that in the forum we all have a lot of disagreements because they usually lead to the best discussions! Fx
For me it was easy choice and I chose....
The original as I much prefer the dial aesthetics. I owned it years back and actually recently was lucky enough to find a NOS from 2009. I went to AD to buy the new UD and was left cold after trying it on. Believe me I tried to like it but found the dial ...
I like both...........
I prefer the original in platinum, the look of the watch and the movement raised the bar and set a standard at that time. I for one am used to seeing this watch the way it came out in 1999. The UD is a very nice update but there can only be one original. ...
Four Thoughts (some not directly responding to your question, though)....
(1) The contributions to this thread indicate that Lange did a good job with both the original Dato and the newer Up/Down. Maybe you'll end up with both! Clearly, you can't go TOO far wrong either way. Speaking personally, they both have their merits. Aft...
Thanks for this interesting input CR
The 3/ is an interesting question but I'll stay far away of it and the 4/ explains a lot too. I would conclude in saying that it all depends on the way we express our opinion and leave others with their own, as there is a difference in expressing a person...
The "new Lange 1 vs. old Lange 1" question will be especially interesting...
... to see how others handle in the coming years, because the cosmetic differences on the dial side of the Lange 1 are so subtle (unlike the Datograph, in which the dial changed radically). And with the Datograph, Lange officially changed the name by addi...
I think you're right
I don't really know the differences as it was difficult to judge without comparing two pictures (which I didn't do) but I would say that for the L1, it will really concern the collectors perfectly knowing both references. This means, imho, that 99% of the...
The new Lange 1 is the first real Lange 1
The new Lange 1 is another example that times are strange for watch fans: Patek releases the first in-house chrono but can not repeat the success of the Lemania based one. With the Lange 1 I fear it will be the same: the first L1 was "based" on a JLC move...
THe old Dato was more traditional than the new Dato which is state of the art tradition
The new Dato lacks a Malteser cross which hinder one from over winding the it. The new one has got a stronger and "better" mainspring but not the Malteser cross anymore. Hence the power reserve indicator in the dial. My stance here: I would choose over th...
Both are great options but what about the 1815 chrono
I am a relatively new owner of the up down but looked at both. I preferred the up down as I found the indicator quite useful. It also adds a stronger vertical line from the date down to the power reserve. I feel the added dimension is just another way Lan...