KMII
[Montblanc Moderator]
50503
Has entry level mechanical watchmaking died already without anyone noticing? 🤷🏻♂️
Pulled out a Seiko 5 SNK803 today. Have not worn it for four years - mea culpa (took the strap off to use on another watch and somehow didn’t reassemble it afterwards 🤦🏻♂️).
The watch cost less than US$40 new from the big online store back in the day. You do need to make a couple of adjustments (no manual winding, only the Seiko lasso movement to get the rotor to wind it enough for a start) and it will most certainly not win either finishing, nor robustness prizes. But for the price of a modest lunch it was a mechanical watch, interesting enough for a start.
Admittedly, I had watches costing hundreds of times as much before I got this one but it somehow never failed to put a smile on my face when it was being worn.
Bringing me to the larger Friday the 13th rumination. Has the watch industry already implicitly decided that there will not be a next generation of watch lovers, so there’s no need to invest in the entry level segment?
At first glance one could say that the Swatch Sistem51 and the relaunch of the Seiko 5 line, as well as some of the lower tier microbrands speak against this but I am not so sure.
The new Seiko 5 lines start at about 5 times of the SNK of back in the day and the same goes for the Sistem51 (the fact that they cannot be repaired or serviced is neither here nor there for me).
I see the watch industry dangerously close to the motorcycle industry situation, where they practically live of ‘stock’ - i.e. the riders that acquired their licenses decades ago. The average age of the customers rising at almost the same rate as the existing customer stock (for Harley Davidson some years ago it was an increase of 9 years over a 10 year period, so practically no inflow anymore).
Of course in the short run everyone is happy, as older customers mean more disposable income and a higher margin but when they no longer see well enough to really use the watches and finally biologically exit the market you have an industry in trouble.
So like we nowadays do not really have much time for the pocket watches and clocks the previous generations appreciated and collected, is the watch world going down the same route?
And have the watch manufacturers figured out as much, trying to squeeze all one can in the process as long as the party is still ongoing? 🤷🏻♂️
Wondering what your take is 😊🤞🏻
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Has entry level mechanical watchmaking died already without anyone noticing? 🤷🏻♂️
Pulled out a Seiko 5 SNK803 today. Have not worn it for four years - mea culpa (took the strap off to use on another watch and somehow didn’t reassemble it afterwards 🤦🏻♂️). The watch cost less than US$40 new from the big online store back in the day. Yo...
Beautiful Cream Dial, Perfect Weekend Watch 😊👍
There is a whole world out there that I discovered recently known as "AliExpress" watches, some of them look ok like this brand Source: Google Images These types of makers are taking over where others have moved upmarket ...
Now there’s an interesting part of the market i was fully unaware of 😁
And it might well cover part of the need / demand. Bit to the larger question - will our children or the next generation more broadly still find any appreciation of these baubles of ours or has that ship sailed? 🤷🏻♂️
That's a Good Question...
Source: lionsandpilotsandbots Merging the classical with the latest tech will keep things relevant imho ...
Let’s see 😊
The question remains if it will be a cohort or ageing effect - do they grow into watches at some point or in case they did not grow up with them they never will 🤷🏻♂️
Good example of what's gone
Hi Here's mine - worn slightly more frequently than yours, but not much! I think you make a good analogy with motorbikes, but that may be a more extreme example. Though while there's less of an introductory pathway to bikes, I think there is a broader one...
Yours and mine 😁
Plus we already have a handful that are likely to last 😉👍🏻 As for the car industry, by and large it operates at a very different scale than watches so not sure if there will be useful analogies. Whenever the car industry tries that - aka Mercedes under Kä...
Well, here is my "5" bought new 1969
After recent service, going strong, although it always worked well for many, many years without a service. Cost me equivalent £12.63 plus £3.15 UK import duty! Wore it regularly for about four years. I am amazed the "5" is still in production. I now never...
That is a great example 👍🏻👏🏻👌🏻
And a likewise cool story to go with it! Or sure any of the wearables nowadays will be bought by owners that will still remember them decades into the future, let alone be working so far down the line 😊🤷🏻♂️ Thanks for joining in 👍🏻🙏🏻 ...
It is that for sure 😊👍🏻
Not a dive or tool watch but will do all that’s strictly necessary without trouble and even if it gets a ding or a scratch you will not much care 😁
I agree that entry level prices for mechanical watches seems to have increased beyond inflationary influences. Small low priced independents must be limited to online purchases.
A mall I frequent has a number of high end boutiques and one department store that carries some entry level options where a decent mechanical watch now seems to be at least a few hundred dollars, often more. Seiko 5s are in the mix along with Bulova and C...
I thought that’s what we do here 😂😂😂
On occasion wear a watch without setting it 😉🤦🏻♂️ Very interesting observation though - would not have thought that’s the case with younger people. Thanks for adding your experience 👍🏻🙏🏻
My taste may vary from time to time
But today it’s the same as yours! Even a display back… Apparently I bought this a long long time ago, as my pictures go back to 2005! Mike ...
Now ce to see another one - thanks Mike 👍🏻🙏🏻
It also appears that the line was often added by people already far up the food chain as far as watches go, which is interesting. Difficult to make solid arguments without access to data and then again not sure the watch brands have a complete grasp of it...
I guess in most parts of the world…
Manual transmissions are indeed dead. I will still hope to be able to teach my kids to drive stock, when the time comes, though. Just like tying a tie, there are things their old school father thinks they need to know 😂😂😂 Nice SKX 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 ...
While some old things can die off without a loss IMHO…
Other basics, like navigating with a physical map or driving a manual are skills not necessarily of frequent utility but of still some value. Maybe o al simply getting old 😉
Sorry late in responding.
Yes, I have a paper (well, plastic coated) map of my current home state as well as a larger format map of the United States in my car. I can’t imagine not having either. I also use a Dictionary and Thesaurus at home.
I have to admit…
It’s been many years since I have had a Volvo European Road Atlas in the car (would be badly outdated even if I could find it (probably still in the Volvo 😂🤷🏻♂️). But looking at options for some exciting road trips ahead, so could go for one again 🤞🏻👍🏻 ...
Cool shots 👌🏻👍🏻
In light of the topic, out of curiosity - had implies it has a new owner now. Just curious what type of owner it ended up with 😊
I never wore mine daily 😊🤷🏻♂️
But find the Sistem51 Swatches quite accurate, actually 👍🏻
here are two of mine from the old collection...
...fun pieces and hardy And a larger green version Those were the days ...
I definitely recall the plate of the second picture 😊👍🏻
I guess years of hanging out here create some special type of memory for individual photos 😂 Thanks for joining in with three specimen 👍🏻🙏🏻
Puts a smile on my face just seeing this Seiko!
What I love about our hobby is that we appreciate all watches no matter the price point, and especially when they have personal meaning. This PRX, gifted to me from someone special, I always enjoy wearing and certainly puts a smile on my face whenever I l...
Just out of curiosity, how do you see the state of entry level mechanical watchmaking nowadays?
As bleak as I feel or more positive? 😊
Its a good question.
I agree that average entry level models are much higher in price, yet are becoming much more competitive in what they have to offer, both in terms of design and function. I think that the watch industry sees both an ever rising number of collectors/aficio...
It’s the neophytes I am not so sure are properly catered to 🤷🏻♂️
At least not from the mainstream brands. As you say there are many micro brands nowadays but where I am not sure is if they have a reach to people not yet interested in watches or if they are catering more to people like us, converts already 🤷🏻♂️ ...
Entry watch = mobile phone
… Hard to tear one’s attention away from social media (or WPS) long enough to glance at a wrist (maybe wearing a watch on the inside of the wrist would allow viewing both watch & tweet simultaneously 🤔
This is brilliantly funny 😂😂😂
The mobile phone comment is super insightful and the inside of the wrist one doubly funny 😁👍🏻
You’re with the ‘it crowd’ 😂😂😂
Chose the right material for the second decade of the 21st century, too 😉👍🏻👏🏻
I am not quite sure to what extent this is working…
Like any type of proselytizing it is largely not welcomed with open arms 😂🤷🏻♂️
Sadly, I think so
>So like we nowadays do not really have much time for the pocket watches and clocks the previous generations appreciated and collected, is the watch world going down the same route? The industry has mostly followed the money. And it’s the older folks like...
I agree that also the marketing caters to us seniors…
And events we may vaguely remember or remember through our parents but that our children emotionally have little attachment to. How would you have followed up on the MoonSwatch?
With avante garde higher quality quartz models
I would have let Swatch designers have more leeway in both design and cost budget. Encouraged but not forced to find something interesting from the ETA catalog. Did you know ETA has a dual layer big date like Moser? ETA has a quartz perpetual calendar? Ma...
That’s what it would most likely take indeed 👍🏻
Thanks for these thoughts and ideas - sound interesting for sure 😊