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Horological Meandering

Smaller Manual Wind Men's Watches...

 

Hi,

I wanted to ask the forum why there are no simple, time only, arabic number or plain marker, manual wind, stainless steel watches with display case backs being made today in the 37-40 mm size?

It appears that manual wind watches being made today utilize either ETA-Unitas 6497/6498 or a Hamilton 917/921/923/945 calibers many of which are from larger pocket watches. It seems that 41-42 mm is about as small as these calibers can be fit in.  I know that ETA still makes smaller manual wind calibers like the Peseux 7001 and the 2801-2, but I do not seee them used to often. 

Perhaps the larger pocket watch movements are more robust?  I know the general trend over the last decade has been toward ever increasing sizes in watches (I own two 44 mm sport watches) but I am amazed that 42 mm is about the lower end of size that I can find. I did not realize that it would be so difficult to find a watch being made today.  Most smaller watches either have cases made from precious metals or have very expensive in-house movements.  I was hoping to find something in the $4-8k range, but so far no luck. 

- Blancpain Villieret Ultra Slim is 40 mm but has Roman numerals which I do not want

- Chopard only really makes precious metal LUC watches now

- Chronoswiss makes some at 44 mm

- Dornblueth makes 42 mm deck watches

- Glashutte makes a Pano but it is too close to my PML auto

- Grand Seikos are great, but no display back

- IWC Portuguese hand winds are huge (44mm)

- JLC Reversos are fine, but only the 976 has a display back and it is too big for me and the MUT 37 has no second hand.

- Nomos are great, but they are too small

- Omega Railmasters are enormous

- Panerai makes a Radomir at 42 mm

- RGM makes a number of watches in the 41 to 44 mm range

- Stowa Antea Klein is too small and their deck watches are 42 mm

- Tourby makes watches at 42 mm

I realize that a vintage watch might be a way to look but I really don't know to much about what was good and what was not, who to buy from or what is a fair price to pay; so I have stayed away from that option.  Some pointers here might be appreciated.

I welcome your comments and thoughts.

smile

Bob

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31 Comments view entire thread 

I can think of at least one . . .

 
By: Dr No : January 17th, 2011-14:55
. . . that fills all your requirements, Bob . . . . . . including list price limitations. Unfortunately, I don't have any caseback photos to share, but a Google search for "Eterna Madison Spherodrive" will bring up a series of photos on a French website. ...  

Thanks for teh suggestion...

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 17th, 2011-15:29
Art, Thanks much for suggesting the Eterna. I had looked at the Eterna Madison Three Hands in my search. While it is a less sophisticated movement, I prefer having the seconds marked in the chapter ring. What I found a bit unsettling is that there are onl... 

Admittedly, three doesn't seem like much . . .

 
By: Dr No : January 18th, 2011-11:35
. . . in the way of points-of-sale, but that's three more than there were two years ago ;-) . . .

GP is releasing a 1966 with a subseconds dial this year

 
By: playtime : January 18th, 2011-05:45
and it is at 40mm... J

This one has the seconds

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 18th, 2011-15:42
Art, This is regular madison without the cool movement feature. Bob...  

Yes, and it also employs . . .

 
By: Dr No : January 19th, 2011-07:53
. . . ball bearings in the winding stem like the Spherodrive. I'd love to hear from an owner about these Eternas . . .

Look at the new JLC offerings

 
By: expwmbat : January 17th, 2011-16:31
There are several Reversos that are smaller, and the new Master Ultra Thin Moonphase is gorgeous and 39mm. For independents you might give a look at Henschel. They make some very nice looking traditional hand wound watches. I've never seen one in person, ... 

Also consider the Chronoswiss Orea HW

 
By: expwmbat : January 17th, 2011-16:31

And Piaget (and maybe Parmigiani?)

 
By: expwmbat : January 17th, 2011-16:33

I did, but thanks!

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 18th, 2011-03:33
I considered the Orea but I am looking for either arabic numbers or plain markers. I am not interested in roman numerals for this one.

Thanks for your suggestions

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 18th, 2011-03:31
Thank you for the suggestions. I will check out Hentschel, I had not heard of them. The new JLC is lovely, but I do not think I want a second lunar watch (I have a GO PML). Since I will only wear the manual wind now and then, I do not want any calendar or... 

2nd look at Nomos and JLC?

 
By: tee530 : January 17th, 2011-19:32
Bob, The Nomos Club manual winders are at 36 mm, which is below your stated size preference, but there is also the newer Zurich line, at 39.7 mm, using the same Alpha manual movement. JLC's Master Grand Ultra Thin at 40 mm and with a display back might al... 

Nomos

 
By: nickd : January 18th, 2011-00:10
Nomos have very thin bezels so the dial is relatively large compared to other watches which gives an impression of size, and so on the wrist they look larger than they actually are. This also means you don't have half a ton of metal protruding from your w... 

Thanks Tom

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 18th, 2011-03:40
Tom, I really like the Nomos Zurich, but it is made with their automatic Epsilon and Zeta movements as far as I can tell. Where did you see a version made with an alpha? Regarding their size wearing larger, I agree. I own a Stowa Antea which is 36.5 mm an... 

You're right about the Zurich...

 
By: tee530 : January 18th, 2011-06:22
...my mistake. I thought they also came with the manual movement, but I see from the Nomos site that they are automatic only. Regarding Grand Seiko manuals, the limited edition SBGW003 model (quite beautiful - see Steve G's launchpad) comes with a display... 

My automatics...

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 18th, 2011-05:49
I thought that it might be helpful for those of you trying to assist me to know what I have in my collection. Here are my automatic watches.... Bob...  

Some ideas.

 
By: tfeldstein : January 18th, 2011-16:48
Interesting question. There are some discontinued options that would be terrific if you could find them such as a Blancpain 7002, a Blancpain 1106, a Minerva Pythagore, Union Glashutte Bergter, Nimes Pharro, , Dornblueth 04.0. Not exactly what you are ask... 

Thanks for your suggestions.

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 19th, 2011-01:46
I really like the BP 7002. It is only 26 mm but it might do. The BP 1106 has a solid case back unfortunately. The Union Glashette doesn't do much for me. I do like the Limes Pharo, but know nothing regarding their quality. Thanks again for the suggestions... 

7002 and Limes

 
By: tfeldstein : January 19th, 2011-07:46
This doesn't really address the question as the quality isn't the same, but it gives an idea. 7002 versus Limes...  

Understood

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 19th, 2011-15:13
Thanks for the photos...The Limes Pharo is a $1,500 watch which is difficult to compare to a Blancpain. I was really asking in relative terms to other known brands.

Oops, I meant 36 mm [nt]

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 19th, 2011-15:11
No message body

Longines

 
By: Boki : January 18th, 2011-23:31
Have a look at the Longines Silver Arrow. Its not a manually wound watch but its a nice plain watch. Regards, Boki

One More Idea!

 
By: tfeldstein : January 19th, 2011-09:49
The Du Bois & Fils Record 662 in 38 mm. www.dubois.de

Thanks very much

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 19th, 2011-15:09
I had not heard of these. How would you compare their cost and quality to a more known manufacturer?

I can suggest 3 that I have had

 
By: cazalea : January 19th, 2011-16:23
I've had a couple Minervas that qualify too, but can't find the pics Mike Definitely manual wind, display back OREA This message has been edited by cazalea on 2011-01-19 16:29:00...  

Love the Seiko

 
By: tfeldstein : January 19th, 2011-17:36
God I love your Seiko but it's easier to find a Blancpain 7002 than on of those.

Thanks for posting your photos

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 20th, 2011-15:55
As I am sure that you know, the Seiko SGBW003 is extremely difficult to find on the used market. I actually prefer the dial of the SBGW001 and its larger size (37.4 mm), but long for the display caseback of the SBGW003. The Blancpain Villeret 7002 has def... 

What about a Chronoswiss Sirius CH. 1023?

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 23rd, 2011-11:40
Somehow this fell under my radar. It is 40 mm x 7.7 mm and is built around a modified Marvin 700 turned into a Chronoswiss Caliber C. 111. Thoughts? I have no experience with the brands quality. There are two ADs within driving range.

Here are some photos

 
By: iim7v7im7 : January 24th, 2011-15:45
Hi Again, Here are three candidates that are between 37.4 to 41.8 mm in diameter. They are all similarly priced between $3,500 to $4,500 range. The Chronoswiss has a modified Marvin 700 caliber (sort of in-house at this point), the Grand Seiko has an inho...  

Let's not forget Zénith Elite

 
By: sery.vlk : January 23rd, 2011-13:53
The renewed Elite Ultra Thin houses cal. 681 and is encased in 40 mm. Small second on 9, no date. With a little bit of luck, you can still find the discontinued Elite 37 mm, with date on 3, in a trapezoidal window, handwound version in case of 7mm (48 g i... 

I agree heartily!

 
By: v76 : January 26th, 2011-10:30
I've owned two Zenith Elite 680s from the late '90s (one of which I still have), and they are wonderful watches (36mm case) with really thin and well finished in-house automatic movements. There was also a handwind version of that movement (I forget the c...