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Officine Panerai

Where do we go from here?

 

Craig's post regarding PAM26 vs. PAM317 got me thinking: How and if we, fellow collectors/fans of Panerai, would evolve, in terms of perceived quality of the brand?



I'm a complication freak as I often weight my purchase by calculating cost per complication! Yet, I still found myself possessing excessive amount of Panerai time only watches with no complication whatsoever. Obviously the design elements kept sucking me back in and I'm sure it's the same for most collectors.

Having been obsessed by the brand for a decade now, I noticed good portion of the collectors follow similar patterns:

Start w/ contemporary Luminor, 40mm/44mm, then onto iconic time only special edition pieces like 127/217/232/249, then perhaps some neo vendome classics like A-B series T-dial PAM1, 4, 9 etc. Next stop would obviously be the pre-vendome pieces and some would venture all the way to vintage pieces and grail pieces like PAM21/203. One thing for sure, complication is surely not on their mind when it comes to Panerai given the historical heritage and the design DNA. BUT would this ever change?

For me, I found it difficult to shell out significant amount of money for a vintage Panerai pieces with basic rolex movement when I can use the fund toward a minute repeater or similarly complicated pieces from PP/AP/Breguet. Instead I would have immense interest at the new Panerai w/ interesting complication/movement development.

panerai.watchprosite.com

While I believe they're still at the stage of drawing out a fine balance between functionality vs. design I think OP are certainly well on their way there, case in point would be the PAM341, drawing the DNA from the history while packaging the in-house 8 day power reserve moment.

Well, that's just me... What do you think? This message has been edited by Jester on 2009-04-11 11:41:13 This message has been edited by AnthonyTsai on 2009-04-14 07:08:24

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Manly, Simple, legible, Robust is to me harmonious

 
By: PoyFR : April 11th, 2009-00:23
I find you post very interesting, elementary values? In my case what attracts me is the design, that new design, a larger than ever watch-case with a perfect legibility, mechanically powered with robust movements. Suddenly I went from 38-40mm watches to 4... 

tout d'accord...

 
By: Jester : April 11th, 2009-12:15
With a rich history behind, I think it's a pretty daunting job to try to come up with something horologically interesting while maintaining the DNA. It doesn't happen often but when it does, I love the results.

Do I really need to answer? :)

 
By: amanico : April 11th, 2009-03:18
Now that's an interesting question, Jester. What to think? I agree on thefact that it may appear sill to spend so much money on a Vintage Pannie, but we could also think that it is even more stupid to spend the same amoint of money on a replica, like the ... 

My dear Nicolas...

 
By: Jester : April 11th, 2009-12:34
While I agree and I think Panerai is exactly doing what you were inferring to in your post: -#1 Developing historically correct models to appeal to the die hard old schooler like 232, 249... -#2 coming up with broader products with wider appeal to larger ... 

No problem for me, Jester, if a new " in house " movement

 
By: amanico : April 11th, 2009-14:01
In house movement is used in the category 3...unless it serves a complication ala tourbillon, or a GMT + 8 Days, + Power Reserve + GTI + Turbo + 16 Valves, ... LOLOL As for the Luminor Chrono, some are very nice, even if historically non correct, as, for ... 

Hello Alec, I see it in a different way....

 
By: ALEPOS : April 12th, 2009-00:22
Panerai will always keep some of the dna at the watches that will always ring a bell to a core collector vs a newcomer to the brand. The question for the brand is will panerai can hold their core collectors as from what i understand the future is the mani... 

That's exactly my original point

 
By: Jester : April 14th, 2009-20:58
Where do the 'core collector' go from here? Do we just keep resisting any kind of complication thrown our way so we ended up just living in the past history, or within the confinement of re-edition of past historical models? Or can we start to see and app... 

Just an opinion

 
By: Guille : April 11th, 2009-23:45
This is a very good topic. Up to the early 2000s Panerai offered a product that was authentic to its original heritage, and incredibly accessible. Anyone from around the early days has observed the inevitable evolution of our loved Brand. Evolution being ... 

To a certain extent

 
By: Jester : April 14th, 2009-21:11
I agree with you. Frankly I'm not a big fan of, for example the date window, on the dial, especially those under the magnifier. Yet we still see some models, in my mind, being perfectly historically correct, yet they're largely neglected by collectors. PA... 

Panerai does have some bridges to overcome for its pieces w/ in-house movements IMO

 
By: AnthonyTsai : April 12th, 2009-16:45
Panerai watches w/ in-house movements and complications have yet to differentiate themselves from watches from other brands famous for complications such as the Big 3 or even the Big 5. The reason why is very simple - finishing of the movements. Until Pan... 

value for money

 
By: gcTIME : April 14th, 2009-12:20
i see the point about movement finish and agree. however, looking at this from another angle, would it be more justified to pay 20K for a ROO with a common JLC based movement with "standard" movement finish or 10K for a 233 with a completely in house manu... 

The pricing you're using is not consistent

 
By: AnthonyTsai : April 14th, 2009-13:35
Because you're not using retail pricing on both models. Full retail on a ROO is around $18k or $19k? A PAM233 retail is almost $14k. And btw, the new model Offshores are starting to all house the in-house AP chrono movement 3120, so both models in compari... 

I agree with both your above posts

 
By: PoyFR : April 14th, 2009-14:46
and Panerai 'Laboratory of ideas' watches started in 1936-1938 till 1971, (using watch-cases and movements from others) back into it from late 1980's to 1996 (again using watch-cases & movements from others), to finally from 1997 onwards. Safe for a few p... 

It is true

 
By: gcTIME : April 14th, 2009-19:45
Anthony, you were right. I should have used MSRPs for both. But my point remains that, IMHO, it is more justified to pay 14K for a 233 with manufacture movement (8-days, GMT, day/night indicator) than to pay 19K for a ROO with a common JLC based movement ... 

Apparently only 3% would look deep into it

 
By: PoyFR : April 15th, 2009-02:04
3% is apparently the percentage of people buying 'luxurious' wristwatches which would understand, appreciate and look into all the details of a wristwatch. Panerai aims to cater for their entire wide market. Of course we all, want it all. So long Panerai ... 

Agree that

 
By: Jester : April 14th, 2009-21:20
Panerai might still have some distance to go before they can attract the likes of high end collector who's been buying from the big three but my original question is for those core collector who's been buying vintage/pre-vendome/early vendome pieces. Some... 

I don't think Panerai can introduce anything else

 
By: AnthonyTsai : April 14th, 2009-21:24
for these core collectors who only buy vintage, Pre-V, and early A & B series with T-dials. The only "new" pieces which interest these collectors are hommage pieces from the past, and if you take that out of the equation, I don't see anything else which w... 

Well, that's not exactly encouraging don't you think?

 
By: Jester : April 14th, 2009-21:32
Seems that these old schooler will be stuck in the past and I'm not sure if there's good motivation for OP to cater to this group of tough customers?

Looking at this from a business standpoint

 
By: AnthonyTsai : April 14th, 2009-22:01
there really isn't much motivation for Panerai to cater to this group of core collectors IMO. It's a very small group, and Panerai does still have the 44mm Historic Luminors for them. Panerai has become so huge in a little over 10 years that there are alr... 

With all these re-release of 26, 28

 
By: Jester : April 14th, 2009-21:35
and god knows what's more to come, these PVD/DLC are ALMOST regular production aren't they? Yeah, bring me that sandwiched L-dialed PAM9M... This message has been edited by Jester on 2009-04-14 21:36:49

history is an interesting thing

 
By: gcTIME : April 14th, 2009-12:27
i do agree that panerai should not forget its rich history and should remain somewhat true to its DNA. however, history is a tricky thing, and i think it should not become a burden to a good brand's evolution and development into an even better brand.

True but history was the core marketing message.....

 
By: SALMANPK : April 14th, 2009-22:56
that attracted myslef to the brand in 1998, in my mind its history as a war machine tool and its design ethos are completely fused and when they try to tell me no they're going to be the next JLC or IWC with a military twist my simple mind can't accept/co... 

As an Owner of a 306 Tourbillon...

 
By: chris4 : April 15th, 2009-00:38
...I love it, I love the Panerai simplicity on the face, yet flip it over there is the gorgeous Tourbillon beating like a tiny heart. For me its perfectly understated and functional looking day to day, but then has this little secret no one really knows a... 

Thanks Chris4

 
By: Jester : April 15th, 2009-06:10
It's certainly refreshing to read comments/thoughts from collectors like yourself. Out of curiousity, do you own panerai other than those w/ in house movements?

I dont really collect Panerai's

 
By: chris4 : April 15th, 2009-06:38
My collection of Panerai's started really as me just wanting an everyday wearer. I have never really got into the historic side of it at all. Started off with a daylight, had a sub 187,and a few others along the way, but sold them off when I moved house a... 

i agree and understand fully

 
By: gcTIME : April 17th, 2009-08:37
where you are coming from. only panerai/richmont will know whether they have done the right thing in the long run, from a commercial/brand equity point of view. but one thing for sure, it appears, is that with the manufacture movements and deviation from ...