F.P. Journe - Agnostic

Agnostic

Very interesting discussion paper, Andreas, Thanks.

I don’t have any answers but I do wonder if Mr Journe experimented with different distances between the balance wheels when designing the first Resonance watch. If the synchronisation phenomenon has something to do with the proximity of the balances themselves, then a difference (loss of synchrony) may be observed.

Alternatively, what would happen if a Resonance was run in a vacuum? Would the effect be lost? And does altitude influence the resonance effect? [F.P.Journe already point out in their advertising that altitude can influence the chronometry of their watches.]

How about designing a watch where the two balance wheels are stacked closely together rather that side by side? If it is a linkage requiring air movement/friction, then the effect should be even more apparent with this architecture.

Finally what I don’t understand is whether the Journe resonance effect is related to the balances oscillating or to ‘resonance’ induced in the plates and bridges of the movement, much like the explanation for resonance in pendulum clocks.

What does a Journe Resonance look like when placed on a digital vibration meter? Are any of these effects measurable? Could one disable half of the movement and measure a change in amplitude or accuracy?

Sorry, more questions than answers. It is one of the reasons that the F.P.Journe Resonance is so compelling. I remain an agnostic rather than an atheist.

Andrew

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"An odd kind of sympathy"

By: donizetti : May 3rd, 2010-12:00

I have been trying to come to grips with the principle underlying the Resonance. This topic has been discussed before ahci.watchprosite.com but I am not sure there is a conclusion yet. The following is what I have collected from the literature for your co...

Some real food for thought here!

By: Nomer : May 3rd, 2010-15:35

It will probably take a few days to digest and comment more fully, but I wanted to note that in the PurstS discussion you linked there is a further link to a 2002 article on the watch (search for "LINK" in the discussion). That paper notes the behaviour o...

Agnostic

By: AndrewD : May 3rd, 2010-15:53

Very interesting discussion paper, Andreas, Thanks. I don’t have any answers but I do wonder if Mr Journe experimented with different distances between the balance wheels when designing the first Resonance watch. If the synchronisation phenomenon has some...

At 5280 feet (1586 m)...

By: chaser579 : May 3rd, 2010-17:01

"F.P.Journe already point out..that altitude can influence the chronometry of their watches." I wonder if that's true out here in Denver, Colorado at 5280 ft/1586m? That would be interesting to study, besides the inherent 'dryness' of this sem-arid portio...

Let me try to answer...

By: Ogygia : May 3rd, 2010-21:14

what would happen if a Resonance was run in a vacuum? I think we have to consider how these oscillators damp each other. For Journe's, he use the "rack and pinion" to adjust the angle of the balance bridge. Thus can adjust the distance between 2 balance w...

typo before....and for the adjustment

By: Ogygia : May 4th, 2010-19:10

The effect on the air fiction damping depends on altitude not the latitude... Higher humidity, higher air density... bigger fiction... In my point of view...the adjustment on the distance of 2 balance wheel is the key the control the type of the damping e...

Test done a couple of years ago.

By: Terry O : May 3rd, 2010-22:10

Andreas: About three years ago, a FPJ Resonance owner had his watch placed in a vacuum chamber (the type used by dealers to test water resistance of a case) with the back removed. When air was removed from the vacuum chamber, the balance wheels quickly lo...

Thanks Ogygia and Terry …

By: AndrewD : May 4th, 2010-15:18

The information is much appreciated. So this confirms that it is air turbulence or, perhaps, friction causing the “resonance” effect. I wonder if at higher air pressures the synchronisation would be greater (even if the accuracy was affected)? What effect...

so if air is the coupling medium ...

By: donizetti : May 5th, 2010-12:55

... I think the logic outlined in the Royal Society paper would still apply. I.E the motion of the balances in perfect anti-phase should be the least dampened, because the balances movement at the point at which they are close (in the middle of the moveme...

In my wordings..

By: Ogygia : May 5th, 2010-20:24

I can't agree more on what you said.... IMO, we can focus on the area where 2 balance wheels close to each other. So we only consider up and down motions as it is easier to understand ... If they move up and down exactly in same timing, there is almost no...

air

By: donizetti : May 5th, 2010-03:43

That's very interesting. Did you find it? In principle, I guess vibrations should be transmitted through air and the force would fall off with the distance, so if the balances are really close, which they are, this could be the source of the synchronising...

Perhaps in a vacuum

By: amerix : May 5th, 2010-04:34

the balance wheels would have to be moved closer to each other - perhaps too close to prevent them from touching if subjected to shock. Also Bernoulli's Principle (which enables airplanes to fly) would have no effect in a vacuum, thanks to reduced (here n...

Sympathy for the Resonance

By: amerix : May 5th, 2010-04:12

There is an remarkable series of lectures by Walter H. G. Lewin before a freshman physics class at MIT. I single out Lecture 30: Simple Harmonic Oscillations - Energy Considerations - Torsional Pendulum videolectures(dot)net(slash)mit801f99_lewin_lec30 an...

Great post and thread!

By: schen : May 5th, 2010-07:48

I am never tired of learning the secret behind the Resonance, though never really got it... which just makes the Resonance even more fascinating. BTW, here is another good read that has been posted here before: www.watchprosite.com /