cazalea
[Seiko Moderator]
21032
I sympathize with the "culmination of a longer process ... I have felt how Company P is sailing away from its roots"
I believe this is a valid expression to describe a feeling that fan-boys (if we can use such an undignified term for collectors of any kind) get when they sense their brand straying.
For example I once owned 5-6 Buicks (at one time). Buick meant big, powerful, gentlemen's road cars. Slogans like "America's Premium Motorcar" and names like "Roadmaster" "Electra" "Riviera" "Grand National GNX" meant you had achieved the American dream in time to still enjoy it. And to drive a few kids from the neighborhood around with the top down.
A friend of mine after driving my Electra 225 convertible said "This isn't a car, it's an attitude adjustment! When you drive it you feel like you are top of the world."
The GNX could revolve the world faster - just punch the throttle.
I sensed a change when the Riviera became a compact. When the Roadmaster was put to sleep. When the Regal was killed off.
Now the Encore and the Enclave are its best-selling models.
Tall tippy Compact Sport Utilities with 4-cyl engines. No one will want them 10 years from now.
Will the same happen to Patek? I suspect not, but I have only one simple 3-hand vintage Patek so cannot be a judge here.
But I have pretty much bailed out from BlancpaiN and IWC for the same reasons Kari expressed.
Cazalea
Patek Philippe Nautilus 40th Anniversary: 5976/1G and 5711/P
As many of you have already seen them, Patek Philippe has unveiled today its novelties to celebrate the 40th Anniversary of the Nautilus launched in 1976: the 5711/P and 5976/1G Chronograph . I'm posting a recap thread with pictures as it is easier to dis...
Thank you for the recap
Not sure about The chrono but I love the 5711p. Any official retail prices ?
I think it is a nice offer JC
87 K€ for the 5976 and 103 K€ for 5711P with VAT. Cheers, Mark
I think it's a surprise for many of us on the forum
But I think it will meet its clients. Yes, the case seems to have been made in a much larger size for this version. Thanks Damjan! Cheers, Mark
In fact it is 44mm for the 10 to 4 measurement and 49.5mm
as I mentionned for the 9 to 3, including the crown. But thanks for the check Christian Cheers, Mark
In the past the collectors knew what made each piece special
now Patek makes it "fool prove" for the "collector" by writing what is special about this piece in letters on the dial? Lucky it is far out of my reach, this labelled special piece. Best Moritz
Well Moritz, not the detail I prefer on the watch either
I imagine they noticed some clients appreciate this kind of "reminder". Maybe is it much smaller and discreet in the metal (like the Wempe on the 5125 limited edition for the Wempe anniversary, visible on picture but not that much in the metal)? Thanks fo...
Interesting
Whilst many will be underwhelmed I get the wait for 50. The platinum is a nice piece and well the blue looks good on any Nautilus however I\'m not personally a fan of the "40" text. I find the size reference intriguing and wonder how the Chrono stacks up ...
I think I share your opinion
About the size, the 5990's is the same than 5980 thus 40.5mm from 10 to 4 o'clock. This one is 44mm for the same measurement. It is a totally different offer, on the asthetical and technical base of the 5980. Maybe preparing a larger size for the future, ...
Thanks Mark for the update. The 5711p is beautiful even with the baguettes diamonds. :-)
Glad to have a nautilus 5712a. Cheers to all Nautilus owners. Happy anniversary friends. Geross.
My pleasure Geross
I think I quite feel that these dials with baguettes can be attractive, depending on the habits we have to see some in our own environement. Not what I would buy but I must admit I start to like them, especially since I saw the 5271P for instance. The 571...
Thank you Mark for this nice presentation
Could you have photos of back sides? HAGW. Best, Patrickh
Thank you Patrick
I don't have a caseback picture but hopefully some will be unveiled in the future. Cheers, Mark
In other news... (Exclusive reporting!)
...It has emerged that LVMH has purchased Patek Philippe from the Stern family. CEO Jean-Claude Biver, now head of a new division incorporating Patek, Hublot, and TAG Heuer, said at a little-reported press conference, "I am so very pleased to present this...
Hey E, you've made that joke already in another post :)
But, as I mentionned, we tend here (especially on watch forums) to judge from our personnal tastes and environement (style, fads etc...) but there are people liking these kind of decorations. Not our tastes in Europe, reminding of the 80's etc but in othe...
Hey now...
I actually like the baguettes...! The dial text though, not so much. I don\'t actually live in Europe - but thank you for assuming by my clearly impeccable good taste that I do! ;-) Here in Asia I have become accustomed to many things which would raise ey...
Haha, that's a true compliment!
We feel the same. That's how I understand the difference between markets and I imagine that the evolution of Patek Philippe takes into account a new world from the 1980's/1990's (and before). Now, is it good, or is it bad? The limit being we should not ha...
Thanks Mark...
...for the detailed description. While the Chrono is not my taste, too large and thick (Nautilus are thin watches IMO), I like the Platinum 5711. In fact, I like blue dials and the platinum 5711 seems "more blue" than the steel one. The diamond indexes ar...
Indeed, the dial of the regular 5711
is a little greyer, thus this one looks to have a deeper blue color. You analyzed the dial issues very accurately. Totally agree on the 40th markings, it could certainly have been made differently. Now I'll reserve my last opinion for if I see one in the ...
Thanks for the report Mark. On a positive note I think the cork box is a very nice touch.
However, I\'m not sure why Patek felt it necessary to release two limited edition models. The 30th was a much more appropriate way to celebrate the nautilus. Patek could easily have saved the 5990 for the anniversary, released the 5796 in steel as a regul...
Indeed Russ! The cork box is great
I've always liked to know what it is the reason behind the decisions. I imagine it was deeply discussed and they unveiled this collection because they meet a demand, even if it is not the one of the majority of the people posting on the forum. You alterna...
PP lost his mind
700 (5711/1P) + 1300 (5976/1G) are a limited edition numbers? Could it be that there's a mistake in press release, so 70 + 130 are the real figures? They also pretend not to push nautilus line over the 50% of the overall production. It's nor exclusive nei...
Limited edition numbers should be compared to....
overall production volumes and demand pressure. They don't mean the same if the brand produces 5000 watches a year. Furthermore, I always thought there is a difference between "limited" because of a specific layout and "limited" because of a custom layout...
Have you ever seen a 3700?
I think so. I really love the true nautilus design of 3700, as i like the 3710, both true LE (past references out of stock) that you can buy for a fraction of the price of these new ones, that's why i am so critical. 3700 is an iconic watch, not his one. ...
Well, this is a question hard to find an answer to
There are old models which are beautiful indeed, the original ones and most of them have evolved. The problem is finding the good improvement and not going the wrong way of course. Then, if you add the subjectivity of all that is aesthetical, then what is...
Thanks for the write-up Mark
Not a fan of this 40th anniversary issues. I\'m already hoping for a better 50th. KR
Let's see forward indeed, the good way to go
We don't have to like all the watches unveiled, especially as we all have different tastes. I'll look up at the next celebrations as well. My pleasure Kamal! Cheers, Mark
Missed it on both counts for me, which isn't a bad thing...
... for I was worried I'd have to flip a few of my other pieces for the "mystery" 40th anniversary Nautilus. They missed the chance to do a limited edition 3711/P, and missed the chance for something unique other than to add a series of numbers to the oth...
This is what many of us have in mind whenever a news is released
and whatever the brand is: I hope it won't please me for I keep my budget safe! But, we also want to find something very attractive we want to buy. Yes, a very thin and clean version would have been great indeed, maybe they wanted to keep it for later (50...
To me
it looks like a tombstone: Here lies Patek Philippe Nautilus, born 1976, died 2016 at age 40. There are better was to indicate that it's the 40 Anv. IMHO
Tombstone, Very funny!!!
It really made me laugh and unfortunately I have to agree with that
Thank you for the detailed breakdown.
I am very disappointed with these anniversary models. The chrono is simply too big and the 5711 in platinum, to me, goes against what nautilus was/is, which is a sort of sporty watch. I mean who will treat their eur 100k purchase in that manner. The lette...
Not for you indeed
as several of our fellow friends here. Your budget is saved and their will be other beauties in the future for sure. Thanks for your kind words Zagreb. Cheers, Mark
Here is my idea for the anniversary...
First whatever we say I think that both watches will sell well. For a full platinum piece LE the price is okay (it is priced less than the Omega Speedmaster all platinum) so it will be a good seller. I think the inscription on the dial is on purpose..so t...
This also what I told to someone else
An important element to consider, limited edition or not, is the price. Is it priced like the standard collection (at same material of course) or higher: it is the same price. I like your last idea. Thanks for your input Christian. Cheers, Mark
thanks Mark....I guess is really hard to please everyone...
like when Lange issued the 1815 F.A. Lange Anniversary I was thrilled as it was priced "reasonably" and I was lucky enough to get one. Yet many Lange lovers were disappointed as the simple approach was seen as a shortcut..too simple. I guess is difficult ...
Exactly Christian,
and I had the same reaction with the 1815 and with the recent RL Pour le Merite: I love them both becasue I think they are very nice offers and watches that appeal to me. Something more than 1815? Yes but more expensive then and lower numbers etc... No en...
The box is cooler than the watch, ouch!
No Patek should ever deserve to be on the receiving end of this. C'mon Patek, issue us a "comeback round!"
Thank you for this update Mark
I am glad there is nothing there to tempt me as I have neither the fund nor the wrist (for the chrono "clock"!). Good luck to those that have one or both of those requirements for these pieces.
Thanks for the good wish Poky
Some clients will be highly interested by this watch and it is nice if they get it. My pleasure Poky, thanks for the comments Cheers, Mark
Thanks Mark for the post ! I understand that 5711P has a lower production run and is made of an expensive metal but why...
would the chrono function in 5976G and revival of 5980 model be worth less than 5711P ? Cheers, Gordon
It is about the material price and especially the difficulty in crafting the PT bracelet
As you know Pt is much harder than gold to work (machine wear, speed of the tools must be adapted in order to take off slighter pieces of material etc...). There is a lot of Pt in that bracelet and this is a major reason why such price. Thank your for you...
Platinum is harder than gold, but not as hard as 316L steel.
The industry has a vested interest in maintaining Platinum's mythical properties in the eyes of the unknowledgable. Grade 5 Titanium (annealed) is harder than all materials used, except if Rolex uses full hardened 904 — otherwise it's not much different t...
It isn't only a question of the hardest or not
but how it behaves when you try to shape it with the tools they use. It is not as clean as crafting onto steel. Furthermore, the balance setting of the heavy weight was much more difficult than just adapting Pt to a 5711's design. That's why it is very ha...
Looks like a Rolls Royce anniversary celebrated the muscle car way.
What a stamp, wow. That is an attempt quite difficult to understand, for me.
I think it is talking to a very different client panel
from the ones getting pieces from the standard collection. The difficulty to talk to every clients from every parts of the world at the same time. There will always be someone in disagreement somewhere, especially when dealing with diamond-set watches. No...
I've surprised myself!
I think the 5711P looks great - I'm fully sold. Hope I get the chance to wear with dress shirt and cufflinks!
That's exactly what I try to express
I think it will look very well when one is sensitive to baguettes setting. I'm glad you like it among others on the forum. There are watch owners keeping diamond set watches for dressy evening and this one is a perfect addition to their collection. Thanks...
you are the target..and I am sure many others will get one !
the fact is not as wow to me and not in my current price range for a single watch doesn't mean much..perhaps the stamp on the dial won't be as prominent in the metal and/or many people will feel it is an exclusive feature. I have no issue with the diamond...
I needed some time to formulate my answer.
First of all, thank you Mark for a nicely written report. This morning my first reaction was to call to Patek and that I did. I asked if they plan to do something because a "Troll" is spreading funny pictures claiming that those are the 40th Anniversary N...
Mark -
balanced, diplomatic and full of charm - as you always are. My problem is that these watches are none of the above. I "get" that PP may be "speaking" to a different taste, but it\'s not one that I recognise. I like watches that speak, but these shout. If ...
Even she wouldn’t be able to save Chimaera’s day.
The poor chap has a severe case of the blues – which doesn’t involve either of these new pieces.
Am sure Pia will help.
Please though don\'t drape her in diamonds or hang a big sign around her neck announcing her age and, just to be sure, some dates by which that age can be calculated. Much obliged.
I will buy the new Overseas.
They represent so much better taste than the new Patek Nautilus. It's sad but those are my honest feelings. Best, Kari
I have been thinking on this too
Tried on the new Overseas recently and was very impressed. If only the ultra-thin came in steel - or the small (ladies\') version came without diamonds (I quite like the sub-second at 9 o\'clock, and no extraneous numbers at the edge of the dial - 5 10 15...
on a positive side..Vacheron might win a new client ?
I think we all love certain brands but at times is also nice to explore something different. I also think that you have a lot of fantastic pieces so..hey..may be it is a bless in disguise Diamonds are always polarizing and the date on the dial seems a bit...
True! But
even many people think that I'm a "Patek Man", the latest watches I bought are: - JLC Reverso - Rolex Daytona - Tudor Bronze - GP Worldtime Chronograph I started my watch purchases from VC and at one time had about ten of them. Now much less. Anyhow, I wi...
I saw your post about the Tudor and was really informative..
true watch loves can enjoy great watches at every price point. The Rolex Daytona is another excellent catch ..so I think there is a reason for this disappointment....there is some positive in any bad news
An affordable nice and well made watch
is plain good news. Who in heck would like to overpay? Best, Kari
So what about A. Lange & Söhne?
Can\'t recall you ever posting one of their watches? Just not you\'re thing?
I had the perpetual many years ago
but I had difficulties to read it. No doubt, Langes are great watches. However, the design is a little bit distant to me. One day I will buy Richard Lange; I like that one a lot. Best, Kari
We are both attracted by the same watch spirit Chimaera
and I know that many purists here can feel frustrated or just disappointed... especially when people were interested in getting one if available. Perfectly natural. What I would tell myself is that the 175th collection was very nice and maybe the next (50...
Well said Kari. At least you have a voice that Patek may listen to
I am worried Patek is losing direction in more than one way. See my post on my recent service experience from them.
Loosing the direction is always a sum of many things.
Today I have been thinking that people who are not trained as designers, should do something else. Best, Kari
You’re not the only one who will have sold the bulk or all of their Pateks, and parked their money elsewhere instead.
For a few reasons, a number of another forum's members have dropped the brand from their collection, in recent times.
The current direction of Patek Philippe is not for me.
I find it cheap even the watches are expensive. It's funny how over 175 years heritage can be destroyed with two awful watches. Best, Kari
I’d say that’s a slight hyperbole, but certainly for the past 5 years or so, I’ve had the impression that Patek...
…has been resting on their laurels quite a bit. The push to increase production has been notable, even though they’re supposed to be cutting back on this year’s output (acknowledging the issue with QC), at the expense of reasonable turnaround times for se...
I agree that the waiting times for 5711 5167 are just ...
crazy but people want what they can't have! However this lack of supply is just making the grey/parallel market rich so in the end it hurts everyone. It can still remain exclusive if distributed with care.
Both of the watches you mentioned are made of steel.
Replace steel with platinum and the profit margins are flying through the roof. Best, Kari
What Patek introduced today
does not represent the values of a brand where I'm carrying huge amounts of money. Best, Kari
Was waiting for your reply
You are a true fan of the brand. You have bought so many platinum pieces that some may view you as a "he buys any special Patek in platinum and they can do no wrong" --- I was curious to see how you would come out on this. I agree with you completely! I a...
I have been a true friend of Patek Philippe and I have always respected their heritage
and in most of the cases their design. Something started to go wrong when 3940 was replaced by 5140. They managed to turn a clear icon to a watch with messy dial. But these new "Anniversary Nautilus" were really too much for me. Patek is simply not anymor...
I will get VC Overseas
and I like Brequet a lot. These brands are not unknown to my watch boxes. Best, Kari
may be some of your existing Breguet and Vacheron feel a bit lonely...
I understand your disappointment and it was good to have your input on these models. Your summary is excellent and very comprehensive. It was a nice read! Thanks Christian
Christian, you made me smile!
"It was nice read". You mean when a deeply disappointed client is screaming. Best, Kari
smiling is good :)
It was a nice read because I am always interested in understanding why a great collector likes or doesn't like a particular model. Your posts are very informative because you say clearly what you don't like and why. Not the usual "too expensive" or "not f...
I think Patek has been proceeding in an unstable way for quite some time.
Some great watches has been introduced: 5550P, 5370P, etc. But then there are these terrible references like today's Anniversary Nautilus. I can't get how they fit to the brand image of Patek. Traditionally Patek's watches have been understated and elegan...
I hope the brand takes notice
When a longtime friend and supporter like you is supremely disappointed (and a lesser, but still passionate, owner and collector like me feels the same), I hope that means something to them. I agree with you that the 5140 was a mess of a 3940, and quite f...
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