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In this post, I wish to address the elephant in the room – finishing and the perceived poor value from Patek Philippe (PP). There have been repeated posts regarding PP, that I have let go, but statements such as “overhyped mass market products” was the st...  

And thanks 😀

we will always have differences of opinion on this forum, be it the PP forum, Mont Blanc, JLC, Rolex, Seiko, etc. The differences of opinions are what keeps everyone's "spring wound" so to speak. Not saying I agree, or disagree with you, just saying we ha... 

u just come across as a little too defensive. makes one wonder about what your motives truly are. then again, u may be the true PP God, in that case, whatever you say goes 😅

Things have certainly changed, I must say I was truly ahead of the curve in naming Rexhep as the new King. Independents are now way more prominent among high end collectors. Patek is still highly regarded and will remain so. As for the future and newer cr... 

that your last sentence is just one person's opinion, not a fact. I am not an expert in anything, so I enjoy a diverse perspective. if u can't tolerate that and only your expert opinion counts, then u are behaving like a bully. Also, I don't think there i... 

u do the same

Love opinionated, yet substantiated and respectful posts like this. Just excellent! Cheers, Alex

At the end of the day the manufacturers are here to make money. They are not in the business for the humanitarian reasons or good of the planet.

But yes you are right, they are only watches at the end of the day Thank you for keeping our feet on the ground 👍🏻

The Hans Wilsdorf Foundation, is registered as a charitable organization. The shares of Rolex are held in the foundation with detailed instructions on how to handle the finances. The first goal of the foundation is to ensure the sustainability of the grou... 

I don’t mind differences in opinion: its ill informed hate / rudeness that I will put an end too Btw the Breguet is one of my favourite watches and from an aesthetic point , Breguet make the most agonisingly beautiful watches

I’m happy to have the opportunity to own the pieces that I like. I am happy that I didn’t err in my decision to get Patek timepieces at a later stage of my life. I am happy that my Patek timepieces have kept their values through the years. I am happy that... 

“While I always believe that we can always agree to disagree. Let’s continue with fair and objective posting in this forum.”

You all have helped me acquire enough information to make my Patek 5270 purchase very comfortable. Thanks to all. Ps. Day, moon and date are off. Time is correct. I Put the watch in rotation this morning. Need to set it tonight after work. ...  

Wear the watch in good health!

I am liking this watch more everyday I wear it. It took some time for me to warm up to the 41mm size.

Same goes with JLC and I do own heavy pieces north of $75k mark and as you rightly said none stand close to What Patek offers . It’s a complete package . Hate to sound commercial but Patek gives you all what none can offer. Prestige , Quality, Rarity, Res... 

Wow, you really have summed up some of the well-written odes to Patek that have come out recently. While Patek won't be a focus for me, it's hard not to appreciate the passion it evokes among purists.

Vacheron Constantin is the Founder of Haute Horology and it`s Royal Heritage is unmatched by pp , but the latter has higher resale value and higher prices paid in auctions due to : 1- better advertising 2-it`s own staff who set high bids . The second poin... 

Excellent post, and thank you for setting some records straight while also advocating for a respectful and reasoned dialogue. By the way, Larry Pettinelli did an interview with Gear Patrol today where he says the hand finishing is the same in a Calatrava ... 

This is a fantastic article. We need more of such sharing! Also Walts article definitely should be revisited from time to time. Great stuff. I'm a huge fan of pp. To me they r in their own special realm, no comparison. That said, because they are pp, that... 

Patek offers the complete watch in every category. Some may prefer the designs of other watches but when it comes to the important areas of reliability, accuracy, exclusitivity, movement design and finishing,after sales service service and resale value, I... 

I have bought maybe eight PP at authorized dealers, none has kept decent time, and I’ve never felt being a member of a “family” except my own. In the case of PP, I’ve certainly never have felt a member of that family, rather on the contrary. But then, no ... 

Today, polishing, brushing and bevelling is all made by CNC machine with almost non human hands involved. And that Rexhep Rexhepi learned by Patek Philippe (worked for F.P. Journe) doesn‘t compliment Patek Philippe per se, it compliments their teaching in... 

the case and bracelet are all finished by hand Maybe you should get your facts right before tapping

no need to get offended by your fellow members opinions . We have the right to express our views just like you . this forum is for sharing thoughts .

Rather, I think he is merely pointing out that Datograph was making factually inaccurate statements that were based on a lack of knowledge. Opinions are great and welcomed. But on Watchprosite, we try to make sure opinions are informed and based on facts.... 

First of all I know how a company operates and how it sells itself to customers (my company also guides customers through the facility and shows them how we produce everything ourselves...) and second, recently published an interview where a watchmaker f... 

Like Miranda, I have also visited the Patek Philippe manufacturer (three occasions for me, probably more for Miranda) and I can tell you categorically that your statement is incorrect. I have seen with my own eyes.

...but visiting a facility means nothing today. The company I work for does the same thing as I already mentioned and we have all the machines and skills to do so, but we don’t do it. There is a reason why marketing works... people believe too much!

You saw a tv show and your company scams customers. And that is what you base your opinions on?

I am eagerly awaiting your daughter's wedding day, so I can ask for a favor. I'm just afraid it will never happen.

www.youtube.com

Damn

And I saw a tv show about it...

The old VRF days were savage. M.

..... guys who only wish to slag off the brand and spout inaccurate BS won’t be participating in the forum.

M.

Vacheron Constantin was the King and pp never even dreamt of reaching Vacheron Constantin level till early seventies . Kings and Emperors always comissioned Vacheron watches . It is the Oldest continuious manufacturer since 1755 with unmatched Royal Herit... 

Kings and Emperors also commissioned Cartiers and Breguets but that does not mean that these watches were a match for Vacheron and Patek. If Vacherons was the King as you put it, I am quite astonished why this has not been recognised at watch auctions whe... 

Vacheron Constantin is the Founder of Haute Horology and it`s Royal Heritage is unmatched by pp , but the latter has higher resale value and higher prices paid in auctions due to : 1- better advertising 2-it`s own staff who set high bids . The second poin... 

I do not believe Patek do well at auctions and have a better resale value due to advertisements since many brands like Rolex, Omega and Longines do advertise a lot more extensively and are also major sponsors of various events and yet only Rolex do well a... 

Absolute comparisons like 'Founder of Haute Horlogy' make no sense - both companies are more than 150 years old which gives us sufficient time horizon to compare. Royal families bought both Patek, Vacheron, and many other brands. For some people appreciat... 

We are fortunate to be living in a period where we are spoiled for choice when it comes to the watches on offer, be it from a large brand or from a small independent. Yes this can sometimes give us a real dilemma when deciding what to buy but it is a plea... 

Imran, Many thanks for this post. You set out to clarify and inform using knowledge rather than unfounded opinion. I think that when one is discussing Patek Philippe watches, there is a growing tendency for people who have never owned a Patek, never will ... 

Can I just check one thing, from my very limited knowledge of metals I actually thought German silver is harder than brass not softer (due to the higher Nickel content of German/Nickel silver) and hence the requirement to Rhodium coat brass? Many perceive... 

A metal actually needs to be of a certain hardness and elasticity in order to be polished. For instance, only Grade 5 Titanium can be polished, and that's due to the hardness. However, gold can be polished (it can be done in 24K but more normally done in ... 

At the very least, it is highly debatable if not frankly false that the Patek finish exceeds that of Lange. Maybe you could say they are close ..but the custom engrabed balance cock and the chatons. There really is nothing comparable from Patek at anythin... 

Beautifully articulated as usual. Your love for Patek and all Watches is infectious. If only we could make our livings out of this great obsession of ours. M.

So next time I encountered another PP "hater", I'll just showed them this post.

F.P.Journe. There are also many independents that truly do exceptional work. The mess of decoration on current Pateks is not uniform nor seems 'organized'. Also seems Patek is using larger bits to decorate movement, and using fewer / larger bridges to cut...  

Philippe Dufour told me [Francois-Paul Journe] just the other day that my finishing quality is now good enough (laughter). I can do even better, but my production cost may increase by 3 times. I have no intention to make my collectors pay through their no... 

personal topic. As we participate in this forum, we should stay as objective and courteous as possible although our thoughts are personal and subject to our biases due to backgrounds and cultures. As long as we communicate in a friendly manner, I am happy... 

-"So visually the anglage is lost partly to the plating, but also do you want anglage for the sake of anglage? Its purpose is not be just aesthetically pleasing, but to prevent wear over time." do we talk about the anglage on the dridges and plates ?If so...  

ADs (plural) not AD's V

In a movement to show that PP aren't afraid to spend time on this finish versus the easier rounded bridges

We can all disagree, but Internet can bring the worst in people and exaggerate certain things to an extreme - as Miranda and other people pointed out in this thread Patek provides unmatched 'complete package' from a product standpoint, heritage/history, v... 

agree patek finishing, attention to detail, etc. Nothing is better. I thing the vintage pieces stand out because they feel like more labors of love than the modern pieces. They just feel, and look, special. In a time when almost all males wore timepieces.... 

I’m lucky to experience all “challengers” with personal ownership, VC, Lange, JLC, and as pointed out none provide the whole package. Maybe some have more contemporary designs, or more colorful appearance, but when it comes to traditional watchmaking, Pat... 

I personally buy a brand, not just a particular watch. I tend to be captured by the totally of the brand such as costumer care, service time and quality, product reliability over long wearing time, design, artisanal expression specially at this price poin... 

what u just said as one person's opinion or facts? sounded to me like u have something against Richemont 😅

However I don’t have anything against Richemont other than all brands they own seem to sink like a submarine.🤷🏻‍♂️

I recalled reading somewhere that Cartier has been selling tons of watches. oh, my bad, the mass produced are not real watches to the horological snobs.

If that’s your belief, more power to you. But it wasn’t Patek who bought back 40% of their stock and destroy it, let me help you it was Richemont and while I’m not Nostradamus, I’ll see it happening again, in the current and upcoming economic downturn. BT... 

"Cartier was nothing..." 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Coffee ☕️

I bought only Patek but kind of regret not to go with Lange. Most people i see and really respect wear Lange, not Patek. However, your argument is well founded, even if i still would mostly buy Lange at this point for many reasons..

I’m wasn’t saying that Lange is bad, under any circumstances, or avoid buying, it off course has its merits, what I’m saying is that when comparisons are made one should be objective regardless of where his/her heart pulls! Most “collectors” just copy/pas... 

A few years ago I was publicly scolded here for being critical of PP. As a matter of fact, I’ll never buy a PP again. Mainly, every PP I’ve owned -seven or eight- I’ve bought new from authorized dealers, and none could keep time worth a damn. I’d sent the...