dr.kol
11333
Mark,
very often I agree with you but not now.
The prices of the highest end watches have nothing to do with reality. This means that there's a heck of a bubble in the pricing. At the moment the high end watches are fashionable luxury items but if they go out of fashion, what then?
I predict that when the collapse will start, and it will sooner or later, a huge amount of "watch investors" will try to sell their high end watches and this will help the total collapse to materialise. At that moment nobody wants to buy the high end watches with stupid prices and the manufacturers need to cut the production and drop the prices. Perhaps you, Nico and myself will still buy something but when the big masses are missing, the luxury watch business will vaporise into the air very rapidly.
We have seen the same curve so often. First growing interest, booming sales and prices, reaching insane levels and BOOM! A collapse.
Best, Kari
Patek Philippe Grand Exhibition First photos of special editions
Dear Patekaholics, The first thing I have to say is....if you can....you must go to the Grand exhibition, it was unbelievable, pieces from the museum you would have to go to the museum to see, rare art crafts, watchmakers, the Grand Chime...where do I beg...
Hi Imran, many thanks for the post and the London enamel pieces
especially the one with the "London Eye" in the background is amazing !! Cheers, Gordon
Hi Imran, the men's officer case back watch looks similar to...
the Beijing Maison 5153 reference. The London version is also 5153, correct ? Thanks, Gordon ...
Looking closer
your watch seems to have painted numerals. Right? And the new one applied Breguet numerals. So they are not the same. Best, Kari
Hi Kari, I think and hope that you are right about the Brequet numerals !
At first when I saw the photo, I also thought that they might be different but could not be sure because of the lighting on the photo.. Another PuristS also pointed out the same. So I hope that we are correct about this difference because personally I pre...
Let's hope for the best
The numbers can be either stampped or hand painted. Best, Kari
Thanks Kari for the info ! Hand painted numerals...
... Wow!! Thought they were machine painted. What is pleasant surprise ! Cheers, Gordon
Thanks a lot for the report Imran!
Yes, I think it must be a wonderful event to be seen for those who can attend. Cheers, Mark
Thanks Imran
for the excellent post and photos! Any idea about pricing for these special edition watches? Thank you. Sham
Enameled dial limited editions & the master chime.
Show the expertise of patek in making beautiful watches. Glad i have some timepieces from patek. Cheers to all patek collectors. Best! Geross
Thanks imran for showing these lovely pieces. I would have loved to have
seen the exhibition but missed it by weeks I think these enamelled pieces are spectacular Julian
that's a decision I do not understand
I spoke 2 or 3 guys who were in London and indeed, it seems like they made 5 or so extra 5070 and 5970 ( or was it 3970?) I honestly don't understand and even don't like this. a discontinued reference should stay discontinued. No reason is imo good enough...
The information is just partly wrong...
I spoke with one of Patek's executives and they had, i.e. 5070P a couple of pieces left in Geneva. Those were released now. But the prices.... I need to recover. Best, Kari
Left in Geneva, since 2009 / 2010??? Seriously?
I thought that the 200 / 300 pièces made would have sold faster! ;) Best, Nicolas
I am no§t §a spoke person of Patek.
I am just telling what I was told. And that does not include a statement if I believe it or not. Best, Kari
They had movements left but the watches are different Kari
From the pictures I saw, the dial color and combination is original from what existed concerning 3970, 5970, 5070 etc...
I made the question to a Patek executive
who surely knows about 5070P. And he replied that they had some old production watches left. I do not know if the answer is right or wrong. Best, Kari
Ok thank you
It can still be 5070P but with a different dial. We'll have more details in the next few days I imagine. Cheers, Mark
Ooor...
... you might get a 2nd chance of getting finally the 5070P at list price? :))
They probably said "Why not?"
All the references being reissued have appreciated astronomically, and as most are sold already, why shouldn't Patek cash-in on this? If I am right in thinking there are 6 reissued models, that's 30 pieces. Each of which will probably sell for many times ...
First, nothing is confirmed
and to answer your question, I think that they can "cah-in" as you said but it would be with a high cost on the brands image. The image of Patek Philippe is built on steadyness, honesty and reliability of his history and the decision they took since the b...
Let's make the maths at least partly correct...
There are 15 references meaning totally 75 watches. The average price is £ 92,328 meaning around £ 76,940 net of VAT. The margin of the AD is 50% so net for Patek per watch is £ 38,470. This gives us a total turnover of £ 2,885,000 but that's not the prof...
It was just an estimate
I didn't know the prices when I posted that and I have to say, the list prices were far less than I expected. I was also unaware at the time that the Lemania movements were old unused stock. Given this information, it certainly doesn't seem like Patek hav...
Naturally hey also make money.
But that's the intention of each and every corporation. I could say that with our tankers I from my small part try to secure the energy supply of all countries. I could also say straight that I acquire tankers in order to make more money i.e. to buy overl...
Let's try to confirm if the info is right or even accurate and there is a difference...
.... between making additional pieces and just having not sold all of the production at that time and keeping several for another event in the future. I understand you point Bruno, if it happens to be true. But I'd prefer we are sure about every details b...
They are definitely on display in London
Patekaholic and Patekcollector have pictures on Instagram. The description mentions 5 pieces for sale for each one. I don't know if they really are for sale or just for display but they seem to fairly reputable members of other forums so I don't know why ...
There is a huge difference...
...between unveilling 5 watches from an existing model (and not reference) and layout and making a kind of anniversary model with a different layout (dial color etc...). Here it seems the watches are new and not the same reference than the 2000's ones. Th...
I took a photo of the price list.
It's late in London and I have an early flight but here they come all prices in GBP: 3940G-029 66,670 3940R-027 66,670 3940EP-046 162,970 3970ER- 028 133,340 5050J-019 74,080 5059G-018 81,490 5059J-017 74,080 5059P-018 92,500 5059R-017 81,490 5070G-014 88...
Now, we have the evidence that Patek values more the 5070 than the 5170.
It is a fact, and I agree with Patek on thar point, and only on that point. Best, Nicolas
That's one kind of logic...
But I still can't see what has it to do with 5170. When making a special version of 3940 with 240Q movement and 5140 is having the same movement, can we draw a conclusion that Patek values more the 240Q movements used in 3940 more than the ones used in 51...
So you are saying that Patek doens't price their watches in regard of their intrinsic
Value? On others more subjective criterias? Interesting, but a bit disappointing, from a so called serious brand... In my opinion, of course. This message has been edited by amanico on 2015-05-31 00:36:17
Do you know one who does ?
In the > 10 K, I don't. There is much more in a watch than its intrinsic value. Sometimes it is justified (and sometimes not).
Like stated earlier, I'm not a spokesperson of Patek
But saying that they would operate in a different way than any other commercial manufacturer would be hypocrisy. I would like to buy 5070P but there are two problems. First of all, I don't think that Patek would allocate one for me. Secondly, I would neve...
Good choice!
About the targa 4gts! The last naturally aspirated carrera, in targa even better. About the price of the 5070P, 150k might seem a lot, but on the other hand, the price might go even further up. As much as i love the porsche and i would prefer it to the 50...
For me it was easy.
I got a very good offer of a new GTS and I took really nearly all equipment plus a lot of leather & cargo. In this case the Targa 4 GTS is quite exactly €2 k less than 5070. I have a couple of watches but only on Porsche. So it was nicer to get a fun ...
"Values" of watches is a big debate...
... Beside the general increase in the whole watch industry with more and more expensive models. There is on top of that some crazy prices in auctions where its clear there is some manipulations behind the curtain. At some point, it stops to make sense, p...
Totally metallic black
and inside black leather, carbon, red stitching and red seat belts. The point for me is that how can such a 1,500 kilos of very high engineering plus a lot of leather cost less than a watch with common, although well finnished movement. It's totally insan...
well, explain me why
some paintings are sold for millions, ten million and a hundred million It's canvas , paint and a few hours work. There are pens, tableware, audio, everything you want …. that cost more than a Porsche Why the hell would somebody pay hundreds of thousands ...
Just because the mankind is crazy.
You listed a couple of examples and there are more in all fields of human life. Just have a look at international politics. I am a dedicated fan of Patek Philippe. However, I have huge difficulties to understand their pricing of the "Special Edition" 5070...
What is art
To one person may not be considered art by another, but trying to determine what is art and what isn't is purely subjective and up to the viewer. I'll enjoy my art, and if someone doesn't agree with me that's fine. It's not art because someone else says i...
true true true....
... i believe it will burst too, about modern Patek, i think it already started to slow down. About the porsche, great choice of color, it enhance the silver bridge specific to the targa.
Yes, but Kari in 5 or 10 years a car will loose from 50 to 70%. Not the watch. [nt]
In the mean time, I agreee that prices are high of course. Just that since there are buyers who find what they want at that price, then it is quite a normal situation. The problem are the people who go "in" just because they speculate. If those have a pro...
Mark,
very often I agree with you but not now. The prices of the highest end watches have nothing to do with reality. This means that there's a heck of a bubble in the pricing. At the moment the high end watches are fashionable luxury items but if they go out o...
Kari, we don't seem to be of different opinion on that matter.
I completly agree on what you wrote. I don't know if it will happen but there is a risk indeed. However, I won't buy at any price and when the bubbule bursts I may be there but I don't think it will kill the brand for all that. What you cal "the investors...
Okay, we mostly agree.
My point is that the Brands commit a suicide by pricing some of their products above sensible levels. And this development is fast escalating. Best, Kari
Nicolas has a point here...
... We are not talking about 2nd market, but official list price, it makes a big difference. Patek shouldn't price this series based on what 2nd market prices them. They shouldn't be released in the 1st place, but as they are, they should be priced accord...
I fully disagree
especially when you say it has to be sold the price from the last official price back then Fricks. The material cost have changed, the machines, tools, settings have changed, the CHF had changed, the market and the prices on this market have very signific...
Mark, I agree with you...
Mark, I agree with you and I am sure Patek has done a lot of research to ensure that the prices of these special pieces are as 'correct' as possible. Sham
i like your dedication...
... to the brand. However i like that brand too, this is just wrong. About the prices, don't worry for them Mark, their margin isn't that tied. With the quantity and price of gold or platine it's not what's going to come into play. Just look at the price ...
There are two different subjects Fricks
My answer was concerning your previous statement about the price level. Hence, the first part of your last answer. I just wanted to say that if we took the 2005-2009 5070's prices and tried to tell what this price represent today (actualization but also r...
yes, not really concerned actually...
... as i will not buy any of these. Its about the track they are taking. Again, what worries me more : where is the limit? What's next? Btw, that 5270G munich was really not tempting... Thanks god! :))
Again,
I'm not here to defend Patek. I guess they are selling their last Lemania based movements and they have valued those pretty high. We also need to remember that the dial of the watches are not the same as the standard versions. When it comes to 3940, the p...
Not only Patek...
... its the market that clearly does, one goes at a premium while the other trades at a discount ... Patek maybe trying to take advantage of it? But they've shot themselves in the foot, by kind of admitting that lemania's are more desirable that the new i...
yes, i take it with a smile...
... like all rookie's mistake are. You know who must be smiling and feeling a tad more confident? Rolex!
they don't give the watches you want....
... but always a lot to talk about, at least that...
I'm not so sure because, as it is a limited re-edition, it would cost more anyway
because of only making 5 watches again and having to set the machines again etc... This argument is true for all the old references in the list. Cheers, Mark
But as you know, the limited re edition is another marketing concept which lacks
Seriousness... Best, Nicolas
Well, it remains a surprise,
especially when we look back at the 175th pieces and, before that, the 2013 Munich 5270. From the little I could see these 5070, 5970, 3970 seem to be beautiful pieces. Taking into account the context and then asking why it was launched remains a mystery ...
About 175th...
... its a commemoration, so its a natural to make a collection for the anniversary. The munich 5270G was the 1st sign... As much as i can understand the 5130 munich, or shangai, etc... i do not about the 5270G. It is not a model to "toy" around with color...
I agree Fricks
I would like to know what is the strategy concerning these events (Munich and London) which have not been treated the same way. For the Munich 5270, well, I think it is a question of taste. If they had made another kind of dial, maybe more appealing (but ...
More photos
These are some of my photos. I am lucky to ride on one of these cars. ...
Very nice photos watch-fan ! Did you...
make a move for an allocation of any special pieces? If so, good luck and hope to see your wrist shots soon ! Cheers Gordon
Too many people
I have no idea what are available for sale. Too many people on the dinner party. Do not like it very much. It seems to me it is for public,not for VIP. I am not allow to touch watches. Wasting my time.