Dje
7534
What is the market?
Hi Eric,
My question would be: what is the market for rattrapante watches?
I agree with Aaron that a rattrapante can be made at a very moderate price. IWC does it in the Portugaise.
So if you want a rattrapante you can catch the IWC for a low price. You can also catch a perpetual calendar chronograph from IWC for a low price.
Then there is refinement, finish, positioning, and many other factors.
A rattrapante is not something expensive in itself, nor is a tourbillon. Chronoswiss has/had a Progress tourbillon in steel at less than 15000 euros retail. It is/was not a piece of crap, but a nice watch. Of course it can hardly compare with a PP tourbillon, for reasons other than complexity (same situation between the IWC Portugaise and the 5959).
PP has a positioning in product definition and price that makes their rattrapante watches extremely expensive, but that doesn't mean that rattrapante watches are expensive.
I have to confess that I see little interest in the IWC rattrapante watches, for myself. What I like in the rattrapante is best expressed by Patek Philippe. And indeed when you want to make that kind of rattrapante the offer is much smaller. Breguet makes a nice rattrapante too, for a much more accessible price (not to me though) and RM has a formidable one that can be considered more expensive than a 5004! So.....
Cheers
Dje
minute repeater and tourbillion - the debate
there have been a number of repetition a minutes made by pp. many were made upon request. i speak of the tonneau shaped platinum case minuter repeater for henry graves jnr, refs 2421, 2524, ref 3979, 3974,3939,5013, 5016, 5074 and toubillion ref 3834, 393...
about those super complications
I like those watches but I would never buy them, even if I could ( winning a lottery would probably help ) Tourbillons and minute repeaters are little wonders but I just don't like them as much as for example a chronograph. I really would prefer a chronog...
Kicks over utility, for me
I make a big difference with mechanical watches and Quartz watches... Witth a Quartz Watch, I ask it to be useful, to give me the hour, and if possible, like in a Tissot T Touch to be funny, too, but the most important is the utility for a quartz Watch. A...
Tourbillon/Minute Repeater
Like a number of members have already stated. I prefer my watch to be practical,such as a Chronograph or a Perpetual Calendar. Though the Tourbillons and the Minute Repeaters are certainly two of the most complicated movements that you can have. I probabl...
It's totally illogical,irrational and makes no sense.....
for a right minded individual to fork out these astronomical figures for such complicated watches.However, there are things we cannot buy,such as time and we cannot put a value on love, passion and our dreams.If one can extract a certain amount of happine...
interesting that you say that fernando
am i therefore to assume that there are people out there remortgaging their houses and putting their families in harms way all for the sake of a master complication from a high end horology maker? i would hope not although i have heard of people that are ...
Well what was the question?
LOL Madness against Reason? ROFL... You're totally right, Fernando, there are some VITAL priorities, and Horology is not one, of course. BUT, this is so good to have these futiles pleasures without which life wouldn't be Life... Best, my friend. Nicolas
Pure poetry, Nicolas!
I'm sure you’re as competent and as inspired on your professional writings as you are on writing about our beloved timepieces Best regards, Marcelo
Hope I speak French better than I write in English! LOL
Thanks for your nice words, Marcelo! Best. Nicolas. This message has been edited by amanico on 2008-09-10 22:49:13
highly complex watches - what beats tourbillons and repeaters
As other have pointed out in this thread, a tourbillon is completely useless, and a minute repeater is at best only slightly useful occasionally. Enthusiasts point out though that they are valuable as works of art, because they are so diffucult to make. B...
Agree on the rattrapante, and even
We may say that even a simple Chrono is more complex to realize than a Perpetual Calendar... not sure that it's more complex than a Minute repeater, as the technology used for a MR is something impressive, and if you want a nice result, you really have to...
I would have to disagree with you there
A chronograph can be done much more simply that any sort of perpetual. There is care needed in the design, but as the 7750 demonstrates, you can crank one out with no human interaction. The most important distinction is variable: Everything in a chronogra...
rattrapante tourbillon
You seem to know your stuff ragarding perpetual calendars and their greater complexity compared to the basic chronograph complication. But, you're mistaken in thinking that the rattrapante is a trivial 11-piece addition to a basic chronograph. While there...
That is something of a specific case though
The movement of a 5959 is made intentionally as small as possible, and that increases the care which must be made for that center pinion. I'm not at all saying that it is simple to make a piece like that, look at all the problems the 5004 had when it orig...
your argument against complexity of rattrapante
Unless I've misunderstood you, it seems you are trying to make the case that a rattrapante is not much more complicated than a simple chronograph. Is that really what you're trying to argue? You realize there would not be many people who would argree with...
What is the market?
Hi Eric, My question would be: what is the market for rattrapante watches? I agree with Aaron that a rattrapante can be made at a very moderate price. IWC does it in the Portugaise. So if you want a rattrapante you can catch the IWC for a low price. You c...
A summary
I guess my basic point is that a Rattapante is not inherently complex, in the way a repeater might be thought of. This isn't to take away from the skill that it takes to make a truly fine one, in the way a chinese Tourbillon does not detract from a Patek ...
your understanding of complexity differs from conventional understanding
Most people will agree that rattrapantes are complex. You seem to have a different definition of complexity. How do you define complexity? Eric von Schonberg
I'm not saying they lack complexity
But I look at the complexity as the number of parts, the difficulty of making those parts, and the initial difficulty in designing the mechanism. When talking about complications, one has to compare the most minimal form of something to get an idea of it'...
To quote a watchmaker at PP...
...I questioned at a recent trip to the manufacture and that troughout the year only builds turbillons: "In a PP, a turbillon escapement will outperform every time a convencional escapement". This means that a torurbillon at PP will allways be a more accu...
