Subexplorer
[Moderator - WristScan]
33398
Dear Mr Ku:
I´m not in deffensive.
I accept what you say as an expert.
Yes, I shown the watch with different straps, and I explained in my text that. You didn´t read it.
What I feel (may be due to my manage of English) a very aggresive way in your words in your first messages.
I can´t accept your confusion about my 1016 you are trying to fix in following messages.
When I asked you to finish the discussion, is because I feel that it brings no good thing for the Forum, to discuss it here in this thread.
It is true we never exchanged mails or PM because we had never the need to. As a matter of fact, I didn´t knew you before this thread.
I do not wish to be bad mannered with you, nor to fault respect to you, on the contrary: I appologize if I did give this impression to you.
I´m taking the watch back to the seller, and will arrange this matter. I acted in good faith in purchasing it and in presenting it here.
I would never have intention to present a fake in this Forum.
By the other hand, YOU state it as a fake. You seem to shout in your last sentence "fake, fake, fake". No need to do so.
Is it really?
As our friend Tyler put above, once the doubt is thrown, the passion is killed. I hope you can understand this
as a collector, not as a dealer.
I again appologize if I offended you in any way, not my intention.
I again will prefer to end this matter here.
I send my cordial regards, Abel.
An Explorer finds its Home...
... with a little help from Cosmos! I had expressed in some previous posts here, my fondness for the Explorer model. Of the several references which have displayed the name “Explorer” on its dial, I had personally favored the reference 1016 as the most be...
WOW! Now that's rare find. congrats. :)
I never realize that theres honeycomb dial on a 6610. This is very rare indeed. I was on a hunt for the 6610 as well but got deviate after some minor "accident" Have you got a chance to look at the case back and serials? It will gives you more info about ...
Hello Tyler! Thank you so much for your kind comments...
... Yes, in collecting, one piece you get, means you open your mind to another different one. Now my sights are aimed to finding a 1655. Regarding this 6610 Explorer I´m presenting here, it was made in 1956, as per serial number and inscription insid...
Even better than the watch was.......,
Your story telling. I loved your excitement and the way you got the watch. Wear the watch in good health. Cheers Abel! J.
Thank you so much JMan!! ...
... I´m delighted to know you liked the writing, as I take great pleasure and enjoyment in writing these presentations. Thank you so much for your comment! Receive my best cordial regards, Abel.
+1...
Always love reading your posts Abel, they always read like an adventure story! Makes me want to find a 1016, I think I'll go for a matte or an open chapter ring gilt!
Hello Kyle, my young friend!! I appreciate your kind...
... comment. You know, I´m very fond of writing, and enjoy so much making these presentations. So, I´m delighted to receive your comment, and know you enjoy the reading, as much as I take pleasure in writing them! Best cordial regards, Your frie...
With all due respect...
Nice photos, but both the 6350 and 6610 you show in this post have at best- refinished dials and at worst completely fake dials. Have they been represented to you as all original? If so, I would be very careful...
Thanks for the comment but
Would you be kind enough to state the evidence that prompt you to think this is refinish job or possible fake? At least our dear Abel know what to say to the dealer who sold him the watch. Thanks Regards Tyler
Dear Tyler: thank you so much again for your kind words...
... amd your sympathy. Best cordial regards, Abel.
i am also curious....
when making statements like that, you should elaborate. Never seen a honeycomb before on a 6610? Does that make it a fake? Well, of course not. I'd like to hear why you think the dial is not original. Elaborate please....
Hello Baron! Thank you so much for your comments here...
... on this issue which has been raised. You know, your past post about your own Explorer was my inspiration, and I enjoyed so much its reading. I send you my best cordial regards, Abel.
Hello Fumanku, thank you for writing but ...
... I must say your comment took me to a complete surprise, as you begin in a very polite way your sentence, but then the text turns a bit aggresive, if you let me express what I felt when reading you. I have stated here, that I´m rather new in watch...
It would be interesting to know on what criterias you think these dials are redone or fake
Fumanku, It is always good to share your opinion / knoweldge on a watch, but it is certainly better to elaborate such statements. Sharing an opinion is good, sharing some serious knowledge is even better. Feel free to do so, please. Best, Nicolas
Hello Nicolas! Thank you so much for your comments...
... I know I have a lot to learn about watches and watch collecting. May be this is an opportunity to learn something here. You know, collecting is a school in which we never get the final title. We always keep learning! Un abrazo afectuoso mi amigo! Abel...
Completely agree with you Nicolas...
... I was willing to know your impressions about my new finding, but I guess these comments of our colleague has turned a bit the course of my initial post. Believe me that I got a rather bitter flavour in my mouth now. First time this happens to me in ma...
The truth is that I never saw a 6610 coming with a honey comb dial.
But I don't have the pretention to know all and to have seen all the Vintage Rolex. I discover not every day, but let's say each month something I didn't know nor see. Do I have to say that because I never saw it, the dial or the watch is wrong? No. I jus...
Interesting story Nicolas, and I thank you so much...
... for your comments. It is true that we always keep learning about watches (or any other collecting object), and specially complex is everything around Rolex. Regarding a honeycomb dial in 6610 Explorers, I took the information from the Antiquorum "Evol...
Thank god for the Cosmic theory.
Great watch, I like both in fact. I guess that you have to believe in fate sometimes. Best regards, George
Thank you George for your kind comments...
... Yes, it´s true, Fate (or coincidences) come to help us, the enthusiastic collectors! May be Cosmos has something to do, or just Good Luck! I send my cordial regards, Abel.
thank you, it is very rewarding
The 6610 with honey comb dial: we do not see it "at all street corners"
Hello Abel, congrats on your finding!
You always show great examples of iconic watches and, besides the intrinsic value of watches, share with us your own personal and very interesting stories. Thank you for that, although I'm sure that you like other passionate collectors, find great added p...
Hello René! How nice of you writing me these kind words...
... I sincerely appreciate them, and be assured that I take great pleasure in writing and sharing these stories, which are the principal part in the enjoyment of collectible objects of any kind. Of course I´m no watch expert, and also it is true what you ...
Al contrario estimado Abel,
Gracias por compartir tus tesoros. Al igual que tu, por eso me gusta the PuristS. Disfruta mucho tus relojes, Hermano de las Pampas! René
Estimado René, hermano de las Pampas!
... sabes que es para mi un placer compartir estas piezas aquí. Te quedo muy agradecido por tu amabilidad y tu respaldo. Mil gracias amigo! Recibe un afectuoso saludo, Abel.
Comparison of real honeycomb vs. fake/refinished.
Hi guys- Sorry for the belated post here, but the 6610 did not come ever with a honeycomb dial. This was a characteristic of the 6350, and below is a picture (credit to SteveP) of a "textbook" example. Not the gold colored (gilt) paint used on the dial su...
Hello Fumanku...
... thank you for your explanation. I understand you are guided by a good cause of ilustrating me and other fellow members here. I will make check my watch, and claim the dealer if confirm your information. Other sources I checked mention that 6610 Explor...
miss-spoke
Hi Abel- I misspoke about TWO fake/refinished dials. I saw closeups of the 6610 dial and assumed it was a 6350 dial, then saw the side by side shots which you labeled as 6610. In haste I thought they were two separate watches when in fact they are the sam...
6610 with honeycomb
I have never seen one either. I also agree that the earliest 6610s came with the red depth writing....however, in the late 1950s there is some evidence to suggest that some 6610s had honeycomb dials. Skeet and Urul, page 78 clearly states that the 6610 wa...
I'll be more clear here....
Rolex NEVER made a 6610 with a honeycomb dial, and this particular example has characteristics as I pointed out that would NOT be correct for any Rolex of that era or any era. While the Skeet and Url book provides a good baseline of info for the novice co...
Hello dear Baron...
... I sincerely appreciate your thoughtful insight and cautious approach to this dilemma about the honeycomb dial. I read the book you mention as well as the comments in same respect in the Revolution Antiquorum catalog regarding use of honeycomb dial in ...
Dear Mr Eric. Ku:
... Sir: I never mentioned in my initial post anything else but my 1016, and my 6610. No other reference was named. So, your confusion surely came with your haste to signal both watches shown by me as fakes. It seems your hand over the keyboard was faster...
Why so defensive??
I've already stated in my earlier post that the 1016 you posted is fine and the watch in question is the 6610. Be my guest and take it to any other dealer for authentication and they will tell you the same thing. Furthermore, you show your 6610 in success...
Dear Mr Ku:
I´m not in deffensive. I accept what you say as an expert. Yes, I shown the watch with different straps, and I explained in my text that. You didn´t read it. What I feel (may be due to my manage of English) a very aggresive way in your words in ...
I think Ku meant your 6610.
You see as he say 6610 never (at least to his knowledge) came with honey comb dial only 6350 came with one. When he saw the your photos it's logical he think is a 6350 at first glance. Upon careful inspection and reading your post then we know you referri...
Hello Tyler, thank you so much for your message...
... Yes, you are completely right, and you have just described my feelings presently. I´m not a watch dealer, or make business with antiques or any other object. I never sold an object of my collection, nor intend to do in the future. As you say, the shad...
All in good intention. Abel.
As much as I want to agree with you. I hesitate to advice you in keeping this watch. I know you might not want another soul to get damn by this watch(if that's true) However if you don't voice out to your dealer that they might sold you a questionable wat...
Thank you Tyler! You give me good advice and ...
... I appreciate your kind words. I´ll visit the dealer of this watch soon, and will talk him about this matter. I send my best cordial regards, Abel.
What we said Eric, and very interesting...
...what you gonna do Abel? I am eager to know more PS: @ Fumanku: Are you Eric KU?
Hello ESE2A, thank you for your interest...
... You asked me what I´ll do. I answered above: once the doubt is placed, you don´t feel the same about the piece. I bought it in good faith to a persona from which I bougth several other pieces before, and I feel will have no trouble in return it. But f...
I am inclined to believe Eric or Eric Ku may be right as he may have
seen sufficient vintage Rolexes to make that claim and if only he is the real Eric Ku that I have read about. Well no harm checking it further, if that's the case. This Eric Ku may also have lots of rare vintage Rolexes such as the Submariner cross breed ...
Thank you for your opinion KCKL...
... I agree with you and I have no doubt about Mr. Ku credentials, expertise and experience. He surely has accumulated a lot more of knowledge than me, and no arguing in that. He is the expert here. Just a matter of points of views about what I feel are m...
Don't worry about it Abel. I wish you good luck and hopefully the outcome is a very
positive one, in your favour of course. Cheers.
WOW!!!
congrats on your acquisition. beautiful watch. wear it in the best of health!!
If I can have my humble opinion
I own a 6610 myself and I'm a little aware about this reference. I also agree that 6610 never came with honeycomb dial or, in any case, I never saw one with such a dial which is typical for 6350 (earlier model). About this specific watch it seems one of t...
Hello Peppo! Thank you for your insight. This Explorer, as nice as it looked...
... is back in the hands of the seller. Well, sadly, experience is also built with mistakes! I wish this lesson will help me in the future. Best cordial regards, Abel.
Hey Abel,
I hope you got your money back, most of us have had this kind of experience, wit some more or less happy endings!... The vintage world is complicated and the Rolex vintage world is a real mine field and as enjoyable it is when you get a great watch, it fe...
Hello Matt! Thanks for your thoughts...
... and agree with you. When dealing with an upper scale of references, models or variants, there is always a bigger risk of making mistakes, specially if a newcomer like me. Though I try my best, researching before plunging in the purchase, that move was...
Abel, you did the right thing.....
.....in my opinion. ;-) P.S. This is mine by the way. ;-) This message has been edited by Peppo on 2012-03-25 06:31:07...
Nicholas, both should have close serials
mine is 268.4xx with caseback stamped 1957. White lollypop models should stay in a very close range.
Nicholas, I don't care about the serial after all
so I can easily write it like it is 268499, and my caseback I 59 as well ............... they were both manufactured the same day 55 years ago. The Rolex vintage world is funny and small ;-) This message has been edited by Peppo on 2012-03-25 10:22:08
Thank you Peppo! you got an amazing example of the 6610 there.
It´s amazing to realize how close yours serial number is with Nicolas own!! I wish I´ll get a nice example myself, to balance the sour taste this one has left in my mouth! Enjoy your Explorers my friends! Very cordially, Abel.
How did this end?
Dear Abel, I just read this now with great interest as I am finishing a report on the 6350 Honeycomb dial watch. From all my research I have done, I too can with high probability (though I am not 100% certain) that a 6610 with honeycomb does not exist. Th...
Dear Edmond, this was a very bad experience...
... in my collecting career, but not the only one I regret. As you know, vintage collecting is like crossing a mined field, and knowledge and experience are required as well as caution and help from other fellow collectors. I have to accept that initially...
Hard lessons are the best lessons
Dear Abel, I am very sorry to hear this and thank you for the explanation. I have had my share of bad experiences too. I fully agree with you: Eric could have been more diplomatic but the good part is that it allowed you to act and therefore at least your...
Thank you for your kind words Edmond! Yes you are right...
... at the end of the story I feel grateful to Mr. Eric for his intervention. He saved me a lot of cash and future trouble as well as enlightened me about this particular issue after all. Of course it was not an easy stuff to digest and as you well say, s...
And it has happened to most collectors too....
.....I remember very well buying a Mk3 DRSD from one of the most well-known dealers.....it was possibly 7 years ago. It came to pass that the serial number was not compatible with it being a Mk3. I asked the dealer to return the money, and he told me that...
Dear Joe: thank you so much for sharing your experience...
... with your DRSD. Interesting to read and learn always from our own bad experiences as well as from other fellow collectors. I´m sure that almost every vintage collector has a bad experience in his career. Thank you again for your sharing and also for y...
at least ....
we know for sure that a very special 6610 exists .. it's the " cream " one ( glossy cream dial not satinated like in cosmographs ) : ...