DonCorson
[AHCI]
3358
For an accuracy fanatic I would think that hacking would be off the table...
I see it like this...
If you stop the balance it will take some time for the balance to start its periodic oscillation again.
How long this will take will depend on, among other things, the position in which the balance has been stopped.
In any case the oscillation will not start perfectly immediately.
So in any case the first couple of oscillations will have have errors until the amplitude has built up etc.
That would mean for me that the first second will not be the same as the following seconds.
For best accuracy I would want to claim the balance should never be stopped.
On the other hand I am sure I would never notice it is my watch was off by 1/5th of a second, for example, and stayed that way.
Another thing to think about, an atomic clock is never stopped to be set, nor is a quartz watch. The oscillator runs continuously, but the instant from which the counting starts is changed. The counting mechanism runs in parallel, but separate to the oscillating system. In a normal mechanical watch the counting mechanism is part of the oscillating system and can't be separated from it as it supplies the power to the oscillator.
I think that Minerva Villeret has a watch with a resetable second which uncouples the second hand from the oscillator to set it to zero. A mechanism similar to a chrono. Thus the balance does not need to be stopped.
Have you looked into that?
Don
Stop seconds function on a timepiece; How important is it really?
Dear All, I hope this Thursday have treated you all well, or is currently treating you well! Recently, on a topic which has surfaced up with much debate on the HOME forum, with regards to the launch of a latest timepiece which claims to be the most accura...
Frankly speaking: not important for me.
And I hope it is not important for Patek owners too... I use the second hand as a working indicator... and not to accurately set the time. Fx
Many thanks for the frank and straightforward answer
Dear Xavier, May i ask why do you hope it's not important for Patek owners too? I would have loved Patek more as a brand if they had more hacking watches. Look forward to hear your insights. Stephen
Not terribly important, mostly a convenience...
Honestly, I prefer movements that hack because I like to be able to set the watch to the exact time, but it's not a big deal to me either way. I see why many brands do not employ a hacking second watch. The stopping of the balance wheel can stop it at any...
Thanks for putting in your thoughts bro!
Hey, I appreciate this very much! Tschuss Stephen
I would like hacking watches...
... because it is easier how accurate those watches are - indicator of the timing of servicing. But, I do have those which I can do similar things by pulling the crown and unwinding the minute hand, and it is totally okay. Further, I have some vintage wat...
I personally dont agree with the reverse crown rotation method
Hi Ken, While often you and a few others have told me that it's perfectly fine to hack a watch by the reverse method, but on the other hand other sources which i have read and talked to says it isnt fine. I prefer to stick with the latter as the reverse c...
I understand.... Don?
.. but at least a few watchmakers told me it is okay.... But I know that there are other opinions, too. What do you think, Professor Don? Ken
I know several watchmakers ...
... considering the stopping of the movement by means of a slight reverse pressure on the crown to be of potential danger for the movement, due to its effect on lubrication. Neither of them, though, was able to back his statement with a really profound ex...
So are you saying that
Hey Marcus, Would you be saying then that the reverse pressure does not work and is not recommended? Please enlighten! Stephen
No, it often works ...
... on all my El Primero movements it was the only way to exactly set the watch to a time signal - well, more or less exactly, since the restarting sometimes needed a slight twist on the crown in the right directions, sometimes causing the minute hand to ...
Then im in the same position as well!
Dear Marcus, Thanks for the clarification! I guess then we just have to wait till someone more knowledgable with an absolute verdict that can be backed up to chime into this thread! It gets interesting! Tschuss Stephen
I doubt there can be an absolute verdict ...
... as there are too many factors involved, with partially contradicting influences, so all we can achieve is a compromise. In my opinion, John summed it up perfectly a few posts below. Regards, Marcus
Hacking has nothing to do with the accuracy of a watch...
...Hacking has nothing to do with the accuracy of a watch, only how you perceive that accuracy. Therefore, a matter of personal preference.
I know it has nothing to do with the accuracy of the watch
Hey Ben, For me it just allows me to be able to judge and read out the rate accuracy with ease. And with the "right" way, in the sense of my ruler/racing analogy. G'day Stephen
Sorry, didn't mean to imply you did.
It was part of the whole statement re: the way you perceive/judge/measure the accuracy. And to me, it's purely a preference thing. I myself lean towards the hacking side, but not very heavily at all. [A semi-related question: how long do you wear the one ...
No worries
Dear Ben, I see, well at least you do "lean" towards it! I often wear my watches only one day at a time, but on the occasion when i do wear a timepiece for consecutive days, say its a new watch and i want to test the rate accuracy, i do adjust for the dri...
I'd say it depends ...
Just like you would not integrate a fuel-saving start-stop automatic into a highly sohpisticated racing engine, every stopping and restarting of a chronometer's balance might affect the performance. However, it remains to be clarified how large this effec...
For an accuracy fanatic I would think that hacking would be off the table...
I see it like this... If you stop the balance it will take some time for the balance to start its periodic oscillation again. How long this will take will depend on, among other things, the position in which the balance has been stopped. In any case the o...
I think of a few examples Don
Such as the SpheroTourbillon from JLC and the RL ReferenzUhr from Lange. These 2 allows you to uncouple the seconds hand from the moving geartrain, zero reset them, and restart them when you release the pushpiece. But after handling them and understanding...
Each approach has advantages.
Hacking allows one to set the time very precisely. It is not necessary to check accuracy, however, as on a non-hacking watch one can just synchronize the minute hand with the second hand and make a note of how far ahead or behind the watch is, following w...
hacking is a convenience
Hello Stephen, Virtually every watch can be hacked by placing a little reverse pressure on the crown when setting the time ("reverse pressure" simply meaning turning the crown gently in the direction that moves the hands backwards) even if a stop lever (h...
Thanks a lot for this very clear summary!
I am alos thankful for your comment regarding the cannon pinion. Can a (too) loose cannon pinion cause other problems as well? Apparently, my watch's inability to stop the balance by reverse crown movement is due to that problem. Regards, Marcus
the hands could slip
Hello Marcus, Your watch has such a complicated calendar mechanism that it would not surprise me to learn that it exhibits this behavior by design. Perhaps it doesn't employ a traditional cannon pinion at all or else it is kept loose to minimize the risk ...
Thanks a lot ...
... I will ask the UN service department and shine with the knowledge borrowed from you :). Regards, Marcus
I didnt know about the reverse hack function was available in all watches!
Dear John, Thank you very much for your wonderful insights as usual! Learnt alot from just what you wrote! Tschuss Stephen
I only reverse hack by accident
when I forget which direction to turn the crown on occassion but I never do it on purpose
Reverse-hacking
Thanks, John, for the sound and sane reply. Just don't try it with a Journe - comes a warning from the manufacture! I respected that bit of caution while resetting to Winter Time with some (lustful) fidgetting for the date correction - but always forwards...
for some specific models it could represent an elevated risk...
...so of course you're better off following the manufacturer's instructions. That said, if FPJ says this for all their models then I think they're just being overly cautious. YMMV. _john
Important
but not the overall deciding factor in my decision to purchase a watch or not. Cheers, GG
Not that much important for me ...
Nice topic Stephen, I was delighted reading all the answers. First, I was going to say things that were already mentionned: when you stop the balance wheeel, it takes time to reach again its natural frequency and, hence, the watch its accuracy. Thus there...
Great thoughts Mark!
Dear Mark, I hope you read this on a beautiful Friday morning in France! I appreciate you chiming in with your thoughts and views on this subject. So far down the line i have come to the conclusion that while it seems that most folks dont mind not having ...
I think it is a must to have it.
You may not have to have a return to zero complication, alhtough I really like that, but when setting for accuracy and timing it is a must, at least for me. Does it really hurt the overall functionality of the watch? I have not seen it, although I dont ha...