LouS
208
Plausible; found the model
The lion's share of early Zenith chronographs came from Perret & Berthoud...or more correctly, Universal...or even more correctly, Martel, Universal's chronograph movement manufacturer. Zenith had no in-house chronograph until it purchased Martel in 1960. So in this respect, it is plausible that the knot could have been on a Zenith dial, in the same way that early Zenith chronographs sometimes carried Universal model names like "Compax" or "Compur." I have found the model (a model?) for the watch since the post above. It is on page 215 of Roessler. To muddy the waters thoroughly, it is driven by a Valjoux 84, not a Martel product at all. It is inscribed to a certain Lt. Col Orsini, and further, Benghazi 1924, a military officer in Italy's colonial empire it appears. Not quite as politically correct as a firefighter. So the story appears to be a thorough dog's breakfast.
This message has been edited by LouS on 2014-05-03 16:54:42
Available on the marketplace
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Hands on review of the Zenith Limited Edition Suarez
When I was in Barcelona in 2013, my eyes were attracted by a very nice Zenith watch in the shop window of one of the most famous spanish dealer, Suarez. It was a contemporary Zenith chronograph with an original dial inspired by the past. A few days ago I ...
I don't know here...
Since the movement remains the El Primero and for commercial reasons, it is much better to make it visible. And since there is no specific context for the original watch, what kind of caseback decoration should you have put? Many times, for watches inspir...
Come on, I understood what you said... but once again...
if you want to have the true spirit of the dial, buy a true vintage watch. At least this contemporary watch has other virtues like this visible movement which meets the expectation of the clients. Because in a collector's mind, nothing will replace the re...
Then a pure marketting product?
For clients who need to see what's Inside their Watch, at the risk to see something which is not consistent with the era it si supposed to refer to. ( Dial is clearly inspired form the end 30ies, Mid 40ies ), while the movement is clearly inspired from th...
You think like you are: a collector. But the world is not black or white...
I don't know what is a "pure marketing" product, I don't know what is a "honest" product, the only thing I can say is that the watches world is much more complex than this duality... Fx
"surprised by the feeling [...] that it is mandatory for clients to see what's inside"
I'll take another edge o this: Why do all watch companies have the feeling that they are expected to release 'homage' models which are clearly inspired by the past. Where is the creativity to create compelling contemporary pieces? In a strict sense the Su...
Agreed, Magnus. Tributes are meanless if there is the only way to go.
I mean, if the brands don't make some efforts on the innovative side. I finally don't get this Suarez, which is limited to 20 pièces, but not for Collectors ( as Collectors would point out the contradictions of this Watch ). I am looking forward to seeing...
Innovation was not forgotten by Zenith these last years...
Just an example: the Christophe Colomb. And we also saw a lot examples of very contemporary designs like the Bullitt or the Lightweight. For me, since I think that there is no future for the Elite movement, the most important would be to have a larger ver...
Focussing on the El Primero...
and giving up on a second, highly regarded in-house movement, by a company that has a considerable reputation as movement manufacturer and has significant production volume, that leaves me a bit scratching my head... But I won't scratch too much because n...
Magnus, you know the context of Zenith several years ago...
First of all, this LE is not on its own the summary of the full Zenith trend. Moreover, I think it was a good idea to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the dealer. If you look at the situation at the end of the Nataf period, there was a crucial need to be...
Dear François...
are you asking for marginal changes? A 'larger EP' - that's exactly what I do not expect from Zenith!!! That's the kind of 'innovations' which would put such a venerable house to shame. IF a give new movement would be larger BECAUSE there is a technically...
Yes, it is what I expect from Zenith as a priority
A larger movement requires a full redesign of the movement. It is not a minor change! But the situation becomes urgent now. If you look at the 42mm case, the subdials location obliges to cut the scales which is a shame. So before thinking of... I don't kn...
seeing your first pic I really thought it was something from 1960
I like it ! But is it so easy to order such small LE's ? Can every AD ask for 20 personalized watches ?
It depends the relationships the AD has with the brand.
When you have strong and long relationships with the brand, when there is a specific event here like the 70th anniversary of Suarez, I think that the agreement was easy to find. Fx
I did a double take
I thought you were comparing an old model to something new then I realized "Vintage Charm". Well executed. As Nico said a solid case back would keep more of the vintage lines. Great review. Thanks Bill
Thanks Bill.
But as I said to Nicolas, I don't think that a solid caseback would have been mandatory here. I was not surprised by the see-through caseback... since the EP is a nice movement to observe. Fx
*sigh* more made-up chronological "history"
You are right about that knot. It IS a fishing knot. It is a trademark of Perret & Berthoud, precursor to Universal Geneve, registered in June 1929 and occasionally used on chronograph dials. It is known as the noeud de marine. I am not familiar with ...
Very interesting...
I would love to have a pic of the original watch... Actually, I would like to know why this symbol could be found on the original Zenith watch. Was the dial coming from P & B ? Anyway, thanks a lot for the explanations and pic! Fx
Plausible; found the model
The lion's share of early Zenith chronographs came from Perret & Berthoud...or more correctly, Universal...or even more correctly, Martel, Universal's chronograph movement manufacturer. Zenith had no in-house chronograph until it purchased Martel in 1...
Thanks a lot LouS! You helped me a lot with this picture!
Thanks for all the info you brought. I tend to agree with you, the context of the original watch is unclear... anyway, I still think that the contemporary watch is nice! ;) Fx
Could you elaborate bit...
on why you think the story appears to he a 'dog's breakfast' to you? All I have read so far seems like standard operation procedure some decades ago to me ... Thanks, Magnus
I wasn't referring to the original 1924 watch
I was talking about the El Primero-powered homage of a 1920's watch inscribed to an Italian Lieutenant Colonel made for a Spanish retailer with Universal Geneve dial markings and a background story about firefighters. THAT is a dog's breakfast.
Yes, my dog would love it! ...
... You showed a great research work here, Mr. Holmes! :) Marcus
I think the red scale may be a "telemetre"...
...or "rangefinder" in english. Used to calculate distance using sound. Like calculating how far a storm is according to the difference between the lighting and thunder. Again, not sure about this...
Dear Epilogue, for me it is not a telemeter scale...
It was a hypothesis I looked at but for me it is not. Thanks! Fx
I believe it is a tachymeter scale, too ...
... but for calculating the speed in knots, based on maritime miles (1.85 kilometers), instead of kilometers. I thought on that when reading about the Italian officer, and at a rough estimation, the scales correspond between 60 km/h for one kilometer per ...
Not sure what to make of this one
It feels like a mix and match of pieces from their current collection. Numerals and crown from the Type 20's and case, hands and dial from the Captain. It certainly would be interesting to see the original inspiration for this watch. Thanks for the report...
I like it
While I understand the comments from the others... It does speak to me. Nice execution. I wonder how difficult to get one in Hong Kong given it is for Suarez. That's a long trip to pick up a zenith! OpC
Well played and a nice suggestion.
I have never actually been to Spain before... strange for me to say that as I've been on planes traveling for business much of my adult life. So --- another great reason to visit! OpC
One of the nicest Zeniths, imho ...
... and I would definitely prefer it over the Pilot series. Marcus