Patek Philippe

There was a great thread stared a few days back on finishing and inward angles on modern Pateks. Now, I don’t have the expertise to judge these beyond “their movements look pretty nice and appealing to me.”

The counterpoint I want to offer is that to me, the appeal of a watch is in more than just the movement finish as a lot goes into developing an emotional connection with the timepiece. As a matter of fact, the nth degree of finishing is not the highest in my list of priorities. We spend most our time looking at the dial and case, so the subtlety, slim timeless designs, wearing comfort and good overall engineering including high (but not necessarily brilliant) finishing, timekeeping precision over time and quality/availability of servicing no matter how old the watch or what condition it is in, are all important, even though I do compromise on one or more of these criteria for the right watch.

Which gets me to my point. Patek just gets the right balance of all these factors better and more consistently across their product line than any other watchmaker in my personal experience.

Let’s take my well worn 5110 from the early 2000s as an example. It is absolutely elegant, subtle and has supreme wearing comfort. The 37mm case allows for longer lugs with some flair, which is difficult with larger watches. It still looks fresh and would pass the test of an elegant watch after all these years.  I gave the watch a full wind and put it on the timer yesterday. The amplitude with no service in all these years is 265°, the rate in the dial-up position is 2s day and the positional variation is under 4s/day. And this is typical of my older Pateks. They just keep going, and going, and going as long as you don’t abuse them with extreme shock or prolonged water or high humidity exposure. Perhaps living in dry and temperate SoCal presents advantages for my watches over living in say, Hong Kong or Miami or Mumbai.

And this speaks to the overall engineering of the movements, from the regulating organ to the teeth geometry, etc., they set a high bar for timekeeping performance and longevity even with very slim calibers and even with traditional materials without silicon components, etc.

My sample size is not large given that I have a modest collection of Pateks, but I did want provide this counterpoint on why the emperor is the emperor even for their “entry” and “mid-level” watches. They have earned their brand cachet over the decades for good reason.

Just a lay person’s personal opinion.

You don't need a loupe to see that a Patek is a very fine watch, and just the feel of it in your hand or on your wrist is half the battle won towards a purchase. PS - a friend's watch, after almost 50 years of daily wear.

Each member/collector, whether being a Patek owner or not, has his / her preferences on what attributes appeal to him/her on watches and make personal decisions accordingly.  There are enough brands and diversity in the horological world to satisfy various needs of different collectors/consumers.  Striking a balance is important as you pointed out.

Patek is a brand that is the best in the world when you look at things holistically - value retention, reputation, history, technology, design. Are they the best in all these things? No, but taken all together they come on top.

Both have their charms strengths and beauty.

Patek gets alot of things right but so do many others to be clear 😉👍

I don't think anyone would disagree that a watch is more than mere finishing.

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.... is what should justify the price, particularly for the movement finishing. It is what makes the watch a luxury product at a luxury price. Without that, all movements would be like the very good, accurate and extremely reliable Seiko/Mitoya movements.
Interesting discussion!
Best,
E.

That’s a whole different thread that I’m not qualified to comment on

This was more about me admiring Patek in general.

And not aimed at you, your post or anyone specifically.
H.

There are some who place a premium on very high finishing, others on the overall balance.

…”Why not both”?

As you note, there are lots of great options from many brands that serve different interests and priorities for various collectors. And I know collectors who are simply not drawn to the look and general concept of Pateks.

In this day and age their ability to tell time is, relatively, inaccurate compared to other means (like a cell phone) and the answer to, "What time is it" is ubiquitous for the same reason combined with TV, computer monitors and a plethora of appliances.  Mechanical watches only exist in this day and age to make people smile: that is their one purpose.  Any watch, irrespective of price or prestige that does that is, in my eyes, a great watch.

That last swipe at FPJ struck a chord with me. I finally sold my CS last year after multiple mechanical failures (on a time-only watch? really?) and disappointing treatment by the brand. But I was glad the market overvalued the piece; it almost made up for the repair bills I had to pay during my ten years of ownership.

IMHO FPJ owners are too forgiving, resonances that don't resonate, multiple services, actual functional issues are brushed under the rug in order to maintain the hype.

... and it was at a dealer, and it didn’t resonate. I pointed that out to the dealer and he said, huh, must not be sufficiently wound. He wound it, still didn’t resonate. I looked at the watch and said: “dude, you have ONE JOB.”

Here's the thing with the Resonance... It is SUPPOSED to work on a similar principle to several metronomes on a table: they will all eventually sync up. But take those metronomes and put them in a moving car (ie your wrist) and they will never sync up. His watch is a gimmick.
It isn't like a Dufour Duality or a MB&F LM2 which have a differential. The Resonance runs on hope and hope alone. It's a laughable "complication" the way FPJ has done it.

People will be camping out in front of the boutiques. Whenever I see an owner say it's no big deal that their resonance doesn't in fact resonate I have to hold back the rage.

The Resonance still does not seem to be scientifically proven as F.P.Journe speaks of acoustic resonance as the basis for achieving the sync between the two balances (and visually demonstrated via the seconds sub-dials). 

Journe is treating the watch collecting community like fools and not just with made up trinkets like the Resonance and others like the Centigraphe that have simply "made up" functionality.  Journe is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, lying about what these watches can do to collectors.  Forget that watches tend to only exist for 20 or iterations before the movements are changed (due their high failure rate, and that's whole other issue I have with them) for a moment and consider that at this price point you are getting an entirely machine finished movement and stamped dials - there is no real guilloche work going on at Journe.  Their dials are made the same way a Seiko Cocktail Time is made!  

I do agree that the Centigraphe is a bit far-fetched in terms of what it professes to measure; as well as your point regarding the stamped dials. I have had the occasion to handle some of the Journe pieces and was not impressed with the finishing. I heard the Minute Repeater chime ( the first series) and felt that the tone was pretty flat and the decibel low as well. However I did find pieces like the Vagabondage II to be exceedingly original and aesthetically pleasing. The FPJourne Tourbillon T30, with its pocket watch-style finished Caliber 1412 is another true piece of horology IMHO.

For me, the fact that a company can act with such an utter lack of integrity as a whole taints every watch with the name on the dial.  It's just gone too far that a few, rare, off-shoot examples don't redeem them.  Often, people bring up Journes early works (much like the T30 pays homage too) as redeeming aspect.  The counter point to all that is that clearly F.P Journe knows how to make a well finished and well made watch which means he is actively CHOOSING not to do so with his brand and is, instead, selling out.