Patek Philippe

Hi, my new 7140R seems to be exhibiting backlash on the minute hand. The amount varies across dial, but max 20-30s or so (half a minute marker). Is there a temporary workaround or does it need to go back to servicing center. Thoughts? 

In any case if you are dissatisfied, the dealer is the first one you should ask. It’s not uncommon for this to happen, as discussed in the other thread which I just reviewed. 

Basically for part of the dial, the minute hand would be showing as if the watch is half a minute fast, but for the rest of dial the minute hand would be on time. It’s not a true “time inaccuracy”, it’s due to the backlash in the gears. I was told it can happen when you adjust time backwards, and that they may be able to address it by opening up the watch. Wondering if anyone else has experience with this and if they were able to address it. This message has been edited by India Whiskey Charlie on 2025-08-07 00:25:18

 threads and for other brands as well, it’s common to have some lack in the gears of a mechanical watch, amount differs. Thanks for the thoughtful advice!

if the watch was second hand i would say this is the problem as wear would incur and it would need tightening. on a new watch this should not happen-unless the new machined cannon pinion is faulty/outside tolerance. see the 2 diagrams to explain

Can this be easily fixed?

you say its NEW is it new to you or the watch. i would set the watch with another reliable watch and run them synchronised and record them running together for say an hour or two or three. if you can do it around midnight to show the changing of the dials hands-all line up for the next day etc. this will give you evidence that you can show them-make sure there is a timer attached to the recording-so they cannot accuse you of fiddling. this watch is one of the grand complications- QP-are there any other problems? has it been set correctly? the watch should of gone through patek phillips seal-(geneva seal) build and testing- do you have a signed certificate? once they agree the problem they will need to have the watch back and i would assume sent back to geneva etc to correct problems. it will take time which they can advise you.i assume this time of year it could take weeks.this should not happen for a 95k watch-get senior manager involved and complain loudly.

Watch is new with certificate of origin bearing my name and address, the problem is observed a couple weeks into owning the watch. The problem has been reported to the AD and the service center. The Patek service center informed me it’s due to backlash — so yes they agree with the problem. This message has been edited by India Whiskey Charlie on 2025-08-07 13:30:23

Minute hand 20s behind at 7:50




Minute hand on dot at 8




Minute hand 20s behind at 8:50

And you used a non-standard term "backlash" and didn't define it very clearly.

I’m trying to illustrate with the photos that when minute hand shows it’s 7:50 sharp, the reference clock is showing 7:50:20, when minute hand shows its 8:00 sharp, the reference clock shows it’s indeed 8:00, when the minute hand shows 8:50 sharp again, the reference clock shows its 8:50:20.
Perhaps the better way to show this is to show when the reference is 7:50 sharp, the minute hand is lagging behind by half a marker. When the reference is 8 the reference hand is okay. I will try to take another set of photos..,This message has been edited by India Whiskey Charlie on 2025-08-07 16:14:47

I understand what you're trying to suggest now. Thank you for clarifying! You're suggesting that the minute hand should be 1/3rd the way between the 50 and 51 minute level at 7:50:20. And you're suggesting your photo doesn't show that. Unfortunately, due to the existence of "parallax" and the fact that the photos are not from the same angle all the time, it wasn't immediately obvious. In other words. You're talking about a very precise and fine detail and to match that fine detail, the photograph evidence would have to be taken from the exact angle all three times to eliminate bias from one photo to another. Regardless, minor detail, we got that cleared up now. Thank you for going into detail. I hope I interpreted what you meant correctly.
You bring up an interesting observation. One possible explanation here:
1. 360 degrees makes a whole circle. Which means every minute or second is EXACTLY 6.000 degrees on the dial. Maybe the dial isn't exactly 6.000 degrees on every minute/second at every "dot" (the dot markings) in the dial? This would explain your situation. And yes, this does happen for aesthetic design reasons! For instance, on certain Tissot watches, certain dots are 5.8 degrees apart, and others are 6.2 degrees apart, and they average to 6.0 degrees. But, the second hand (which is Quartz) doesn't line up on the dot perfectly for a large percentage of the dial. This phenomenon is not limited to Tissot, so I'm not trying to knock Tissot and say they're imprecise watches.
I have other possible explanations, but the other ones are extremely unlikely.

Across dial. If you look at other photos though, it does line up precisely at 8:00. I also took a time lapse video with professional equipment aiming directly down at the watch vs a reference clock. It shows that the differential varies across the dial — so I don’t believe it’s a parallax issue because both the watch and the angle of the camera lens remains fixed… 

Screenshots from my Timelapse video taking with stationary camera and watch.

Interesting problem. If it were a minute hand discrepancy, that would mean that the gears are uneven? Although this seems highly unlikely. An off-centered dial would also have the same effect - but would also be extremely unlikely. Stumped!

With just hands coming out of the center, some dials can be off-centered and still provide perfect time (although this would be highly unusual at the Patek Philippe level). But with numerous sub-dials, any off-centered dial would be unlikely.

If it does, I don't understand the "problem statement" as well.
I have the 5968A and now I actually love setting such watches without seconds hand or hacking seconds because I just eyeball and estimate....1st world problems lol....I don't have to hold my breadth and wait for seconds to be exact.

Basically I’m seeing this:
Reference clock showing 7:50, but my watch’s minute hand would be lagging a like a bit less than half a minute marker to 50 (as in it looks 20 seconds behind). When the minute hand of my watch reaches 7:50, reference clock is already 7:50:20. But then at 8o clock, my watch is perfectly aligned with the reference clock’s reading. But then at reference time 8:50, same problem occurs in that the minute hand of the watch is lagging half a marker behind again, and catches up to the 50 marker when the reference is already showing 8:50:20. Hopefully this is clear,
Yeah I know it’s a lot of eyeballing without a second hand, but the half marker diff on part of the dial does bug me.

and time for the 6 positions. 

And the test revealed issues with accuracy in certain positions. They advised me however the test is static and the accuracy statement is on dynamic wrist simulator. I was asked to wear watch and evaluate performance on wrist before regulation. But it has proven hard to track the performance with the backlash (shown in my photo) leading to discrepancy across dial. Im following your advice to get slow motion video of the watch vs reference clock to better illustrate the problem.

i think you mean-LOSS-which the watch is losing time when in the four positions stated
GAIN-which the watch 'speeds up' in time in the other 2 positions. all in a day
stop using BACKLASH-as that is a term used in gearing and not a watch term
a watch will GAIN OR LOSE sec in a day-see the patek philippe seal data for accuracy

1) yes the watch is experiencing accuracy issues, see timegrapher results attached. Right side is the test they ran just before demagnetizing it, left is the test they ran after. 



2) the watch is also exhibiting discrepancy in minute hand across the dial, half a minute marker max (as described in my original post). Patek used the term backlash with me in their explanation — thanks for clarifying that this is a canon pinion adjustment issue. As I attempted to show with my previous photos in this thread, minute hand lags half a marker at 7:50am, on time at 8:00am then lags again at 8:50am. this repeats throughout the day. This is making it hard for me to do a wrist test for accuracy. 

blimey-you should not see this for a new watch.
PP AD know there is a problem tell them to sort it out-or get your money back.

NY service center said they could do it — but they also said they can’t promise it will be better…that did not give me confidence.

...but I will say that this is a very beautiful watch : )