It embodies the values and standards of our family watch company!
"It
embodies the values and standards of our family watch company". You may
have already read this sentence that is the introduction to the Patek Philippe
Seal launched this year.
Now that the
passion seen at the launch of this Patek Philippe Seal is quietly getting
softer, I think it's time for me to try to explain why it is in my
opinion a good move operated by Patek Philippe and a quite possible and
probable positive outcome for the owners and collectors of those watches we
love.
I want to
immediately take into account, accept and also soften the too often expressed
by some accusation of sin of arrogance by Patek Philippe that this new Seal
initiated. Patek Philippe has as far as I know never criticized its
competitors, neither rejected or denied the importance of the Geneva Seal for
Patek Philippe and in general.
As I see it
Patek Philippe's wish with this Seal is only to formalize, make its
manufacture and "bienfacture"s heritage secure, while keeping its
innovative spirit in the balance. It's certainly hard to talk of his own
work, to explain his own worry of excellence in all quality aspects, without
appearing arrogant to those who don't want to recognize or even admit the
work done and level reached.
Some may want
to share their own experience of quality problems to counter the content of the
Seal, but the Seal takes into account problems of reliability that
watches can encounter, or needs of servicing. The Seal doesn't state that
Patek Philippe's watches are perfect as nothing is perfect. Perfection is
a goal and the Seal is a mean to reach a more advanced stage towards
perfection. Please remember Henry Royce's saying: "perfection
is made of small things but perfection is no small thing!"
But let's
try to see deeper in the content of this Seal and specially see what its
commitments are.
All Geneva
Seal's fans can take a rest! The Geneva Seal requirements deal strictly
and only with calibre's aspects. You may have read already the 12 Geneva
Seal requirements you can find in some older Patek Philippe
"Prestige" catalogs. By the way did you notice that the Patek
Philippe catalogs don't mention the Geneva Seal anymore since the
2007/2008 catalog issued in 2007? So this year's catalog is the third
that does not mention anymore the Geneva Seal. Did you notice a lesser level of
finish in the watches issued at the same time? No dare I answer.
In fact the
Patek Philippe Seal requirements regarding the calibre finish are in my opinion
stricter than the Geneva
seal requirements. Half of the twelve Geneva Seal requirements, i.e. the first
six requirements, those in my opinion more linked to the
"perceived" finish (even if they of course have also technical
reasons) and the regulation can be found nearly literally back in the Patek
Philippe Seal, as it is shown in the little book Patek Philippe has issued to
present the Patek Philippe Seal.
The last six
requirements of the Geneva Seal are the more purely technical ones (less
related to visual finish) and those linked to the shock resistance. They are to
some extent now so commonly spread in the Swiss watchmaking industry that three
of them (points 8, 9 and 10) may well be nearly universally respected in swiss
calibres (ETA calibres included). The point 7 may well be too largely respected ("pinion
shanks and faces must be polished").
Point 12
forbids wire springs and as springs are easily visible on a calibre I guess
that you can be assured that Patek Philippe springs will remain what they have
always been, also for aesthetical reasons. If you find a wire spring in a Patek
Philippe calibre call me anytime!
Let's
finish with point 11! The little Patek Philippe Seal book also states that the
ratchet and transmission wheels must be finished with care, while the Geneva
Seal states that they must be finished "in conformity with prescribed
models". Is that a different shade of quality?
You may want to
have a look at the "movement" section of the "Patek Philippe
Seal" section of the Patek Philippe website to see by yourselves the confirmation
of what I wrote just before about the first six points of the Geneva Seal, as
the websites shows the same texts and pictures as the one of the Patek Philippe
Seal book.
Then if we can
conclude that the Patek Philippe Seal is in no way less strict than the Geneva
Seal regarding the calibre finish and technical aspects, can we consider that
everything else contained in the Patek Philippe Seal is added as the Geneva
Seal is strictly limited to these 12 calibre points?
Don't
worry about the picture above, Patek Philippe is not going to innovate with
flashy bracelets. The colours are just the colours of the tape applied on the
brushed parts of the Nautilus bracelet to end the polishing of the polished
ones.
The first
novelty of the Patek Philippe Seal is the fact that it is not limited to the
watch calibre but looks at the entire watch (the calibre, but also the case in
and out, the glass, the dial and hands, the crown(s) and pushers, the strap or
bracelet). Also it is not limited to the watch but also to the services linked
to the watch and particularly the servicing.
When saying the
"entire watch" that means also that Patek Philippe has formalized
principles that influence the creation and development of a new watch. It must
take into account the tradition of Patek Philippe, the best tradition of
watchmaking and the spirit of innovation of the company.
The rate
accuracy is another aspect of the Patek Philippe Seal. You may remember that in
1997 the COSC and the Geneva Seal board created a common certificate for some
Patek Philippe watches created to celebrate the opening of the new (and
current) Patek Philippe manufacture. Those watches were the ref 5500 Pagoda
fitted with calibre 215PS and the ref 5029 fitted with calibre R27PS, a minute
repeater in an officer case. This certificate's requirements were just
that the watch calibre was compliant with the Geneva Seal requirements and that
it was respecting the standard COSC requirements. All tourbillon Patek Philippe
watches have also since that time been delivered with a COSC certificate and
I've not been able to check if that was already the case or not before
1997.
The new Patek
Philipe Seal has even more stringent requirements than the COSC. When the COSC
daily tolerance is -4 +6 the PP Seal accepts -3 + 2 for calibres above 20mm of
diameter (-5 +4 for calibres below 20 MM of diameter). The Patek Philippe Seal
also tolerates only -2 +1 variations for tourbillon watches!
Isn't that an obvious improvement, or at least a precious commitment?
I should add
that the Patek Philippe watches must pass the test fully assembled, while the
COSC requirements apply as you may know only to calibres before assembly.
In fact what we
must understand about this Patek Philippe Seal is that it is aimed at
perpetuating the best of Patek Philippe, the spirit of the glorious company.
How many watch companies have lost their soul due to marketing erring ways? How
many watch companies have lost their soul while diluting their qualities to
follow trends and profit from them?
At a time when
Mr Philippe Stern is transmitting the helm of the family company to his son
Thierry, isn't it a wise move to state what the strengths and virtues of
Patek Philippe are, to in some way write them in the marble?
Patek Philippe
has already proved with the Advanced Research series that it can be at the
forefront of the innovation while keeping its core values and avoiding passing
trends. Innovation leads to progress only if it's useful. Difference is
in no way innovation in itself. A Calatrava 5196 is not really different from a
reference 96, except that it is more reliable, more precise, and has
progressively got larger to answer the lasting market demand. The Patek
Philippe Seal is here to make the coming versions respect the heritage while
they will be indisputably new.
Obviously
that's a positioning statement. Those looking for permanent change, what
is fully respectable, may not find their objects of desire in the Patek
Philippe range. Patek Philippe probably does not intend to please every one.
But who does?
I should also
address those who think that Patek Philippe didn't need to create a
"seal" for that. I too think that it was not necessary to create a
"seal" to do well, but I'm 100% sure that it was necessary to
create a Patek Philippe Seal to clearly share with the public (and I
don't think we are here exactly the public), with its potential or
already customers the true significance of all that is embodied by the Patek
Philippe Seal.
I also truly
believe that nature and humans don't stand emptiness. The simple
withdrawal of the Geneva Seal, no longer sufficient to express what had to be
expressed, would have left a negative impression, had it not been replaced by a
more stringent commitment!
Keeping the
Geneva Seal was probably not a solution either as more and more brands are seemingly
now respecting the Geneva seal requirements for the sake of it as a marketing
tool, or as a way to try to compare itself to Patek Philippe on a ground that
it too limited in itself to be a fair comparison criteria, even if the Geneva Seal requirements are quite respectable.
So coming back
to the opening point of the potential arrogance of such a private seal, I want
to hope that this reading has convinced you that Patek Philippe is only trying
to improve itself and stay at its best, and not just pretend!
I've
always thought that a Seal in history was a commitment, a signature, and
definitely not a simple quality control based on some limited requirements.
Let's the
future come now. I've heard that it comes early, as soon as in the
beginning of next month! Let us some time to see the promises in the light of
day. 
Thank you for
reading.
Cheers
Dje
A reputation is what others say about you, not what you say about yourself.
I particularly object to the accuracy standard embodied in the seal criteria. Average accuracy is a matter of luck and careful averaging; real accuracy requires minimizing positional and temperature variation. C.O.S.C. measures those things and states the results. I think it highly significant that Patek does not discuss them.
A seal is not a reputation!
I read your point but a seal is a commitment and a commitment is not a reputation.
The reputation comes from the level of respect of the commitment!
Regarding accuracy Patek Philippe's requiremetns are not limited to what I wrote but what I wrote is what is public!
Cheers
Dje
100% agree. Certification can only be external.
A seal with good intentions...
Thank you for the seductive photographs Dje! Although they don't exclusively pertain to the Patek Seal, it's good to see how Patek Philippe watches are made.
I will miss the Geneva Seal though, I think the Geneva Seal has a charm and stigma surrounding it (this stigma is largely contributed by Patek's upholding the Geneva Seal values) that cannot be replaced. So far, this Patek Philippe Seal does not have any charm to me.
All in all, this seal isn't really that big of a deal. It's not going to affect my perception that Patek Philippe is still a great watch brand. However, I do like the Geneva Seal and I will miss it very much. But as long as Patek Philippe continues to make watches of the same exacting quality in the future consistently, I will be actively considering acquisitions from this brand.
I really loved the photographs of the Geneva Salon. Haven't seen the rest room though, I hear it's reserved only for VIPs. I didn't know the "American" pocketwatch was available for purchase. I was admiring this pocketwatch when I was at the boutique, I especially appreciate this kind of pocketwatch case with this kind of bezel. The 5070 and 5074 watches have a similar case, it's just a pity that it's next to impossible to get a 5070P anymore and it's very very difficult to get approval for a 5074.
Wise thoughts Patrick
I've long loved this pocket watch and seeing two of them on the same day was something!
At least after such an experience I could (shortly) rest in the VIP room!
Cheers
Dje
Dje, that is what I call ...
Thanks, for all your efforts!
Some "sceneries" looked familiar to me and brought back nice memories
Oliver
Good intentions are sealed to any PP watch
So, why does PP need a seal, being Geneva or Patek?
That is the question which remains.
I find the PP seal redundant with the claim of Excellence.
Excellence, nor PP doesn't need a seal.
So, besides this personal opinion, I want to congratulate you for this excellent post, Jerome.
Well written, perfectly documented, and with superb photos.
Yes, these PP watches are more than desirable, and some of them makes me really dream.
Go on, PP, with or without seal!
Best,
Nicolas
This message has been edited by amanico on 2009-10-25 13:10:07
I share your point of view but...
Fr.Xavier
Interesting theory
Cheers
Dje
Thank you Nicolas
Indeed that's your personal opinion, not mine!
If they had named it "Patek Philippe quality chart" or "Patek Philippe commitments" or whatever...... would have that changed something!
A seal replaces a seal! That's it!
Cheers
Dje
One must expect the unexpected...
Many Thanks, but you haven't addressed one worry
I appreciate the time you've put in to that article, especially the illustrations, but I still have one major concern, openness/auditability. The COSC, for all it's flaws, the Geneva Seal Org and the QF certs are all given by an organization outside the watch company, a third party. To a degree they are all auditable, COSC even publishes annual reports on how many watches were submitted, and how many of each brand passed.
This second, and more problematic, issue is that of the standards. The verious other certs/seals are acknoledgements that the piece follows some defined, publicly available, standards of function, finish or both. On their webpages for the Patek seal, I can find vague platitudes about quality and accuracy eg. "The appearance of all watch components is systematically assessed throughout the entire manufacturing process. Finished watches are subject to 100% scrutiny." The accuracy part sounds quite good, -3+2 is a very high standard, but there's no indication of if that is average, if temprature is taken into consideration, etc. I would not accuse Patek of this, but how does one know that their watch adhered to a standard if you don't know the specifics of the standard and it is certified by the vendor (would you trust microsoft if they said "Our software is certified bug-free as prt the MS bug-free standard")
I'm neither pro nor anti the Patek seal, but I am pro information, and with the seal Patek has removed some information from the field.
A
Jerome,thank you for a beautifully crafted article & photo..
Sorry Aaron but I strongly disagree
Do you really think that the Geneva Seal control process is any better than what you describe as negative for the Patek Philippe Seal?
If you've read my words and not just looked at the pictures you may have understood that the Patek Philippe Seal is clear and detailed enough (even on the public side) to be at least as stringent as the Geneva Seal on the calibre aspects.
Then you may know or not how the Geneva Seal is controlled. Control is done on a first piece and not on all pieces applying! So I in no way see the geneva Seal as a quality control, but as another self commitment to respect the level of finish a company has committed to with its first piece.
I admit that Patek Philippe should in my opinion detail more the content of the Seal in the future, but for what I've seen of it I can say you that if you do not work as a copntroller on the production line, you won't do much with this content.
The Geneva Seal has/had the advantage to be quite limited in content so it seems easy to say yes or no it passes. The Patek Philippe Seal is so much more elaborated it's hard to compare!
Cheers
Dje
I'll not defend the GS
A
ps and yes, Jerome, I do actually read your notes, not just look at the pics
No problem
Hi Aaron,
Patek Philippe doesn't want to present its seal as an improvement over the GS, and doesn't refer to other seals either.
There are many many points in watchmaking that have no standard of reference, so for instance there is no definite way to decorate well a winding rotor.
I'm pretty sure that the evolution/revolution of the Patek Philippe Seal will bring some kinds of standards in the future, when there was none so far.
Cheers
Dje
De : www watchprosite
[[Email address suppressed for privacy]]
Envoyé : mardi 27 octobre
2009 23:07
À : [Email address suppressed for privacy]
Objet : {3441426} AutoForum
response I'll not defend the GS
Alert from: www:watchprosite
Posted By:
aaronm (registered) on October 27th, 2009 - 15:07
Title: I'll not defend the GS
They may not say "this is to replace the GS"
but it seemed to be a clear message in the adoption of the PP seal and the dropping of the GS. They could have easily made the PP seal incorporate the GS, but instead they simply stopped using the GS. I didn't hear them ever say "we are replacing/improving/augmenting the GS" but their silence on topic says something, at least to me
A
Of course
Of course Patek Philippe didn't drop the Geneva Seal to adopt lesser requirement !
So obviously if they choose to change it's certainly because they consider their Seal to be in some ways superior to the Geneva Seal.
In fact whatever the Geneva Seal changes they could not reach the level of the Patek Philippe Seal as it takes so much into account about the creation and production of watches that it can be external!
Cheers
Dje
PP seal: A process & product seal vs Geneva seal: A Product seal
When I first read about the PP seal, I commented on this forum that it was fatally flawed, in that it was not an external evaluation. I later read the interview with Stern in the PP magazine & changed my mind.
The new PP seal seem to primarily be a statement of quality during the process of manufacturing the watch & it also automatically includes evaluating the final product while the earlier Geneva seal was purely an evaluation of the final product. I think there is a lot to be said for including quality markers to the manufacturing process itself & in this context, the PP seal is a more comprehensive quality assurance than the Geneva seal.
fnk
Patek seal....Skeptical, from experience.
I've been retired now for nearly ten years.
All my working life was spent as an Engineering designer, a draughtsman to most.
When my drawing were prepared, they had to be 'checked' by, yes you guessed it, by a 'checker'.
Often the checkers would be busy and I had to 'CHECK MY OWN WORK'
Now from experience I can tell you that this is IMHO is impossible, and it never worked for me.
How on earth can anyone give a seal of approval to themselves?
e.g. I've done well today, think I'll give myself a 'D in W' seal......utter rubbish, it's meaningless.
For me internal regulation is......no regulation.
I have lost a lot of faith in Patek over this PP seal business, and all because they (PP) got their knickers in a twist when the Geneva seal was issued to Cartier. Just like some spioled child.
Excuse my rantings, just had to get it off my chest.
D in W
Brin back...
