Patek Philippe

faith thing...

I enjoy talking to AD's and watch repair specialists all over the world - ok maybe not all over but many places in US and EU-  and what I heard consistently from objective people is that PP has a great movement, but their cases are terrible, from durability point of view. My personal experience is in complete agreement with those statements. For example, once, I dropped my PP 5140G over a plastic floor in the gym from a height of 1.30 meters. As many would know, 5140 is a very light watch. What happened stunned me. It probably landed on the crown, which bended the stem, which may be OK. However, the tip of one of the lugs also chipped off!!!!! Yes, the white gold case was brittle and chipped off. When I did some research, I learned that PP cases are made by pouring liquid metal into mold, as opposed to machining from a solid stock. Evidently the case of my watch was the result of an imperfect pouring or quech/cool process that resulted in a brittle white gold case !!! Yes, this is PP quality control for you regarding the cases. Of course I had the lug tip repaired by laser welding, but it was an eye opening experience. My opinion about PP changed dramatically after this event. Cheers. Jim

Greetings Patrick.  Considering the tone of your posts in this thread, if I didn't see your name attached I might have thought that I wrote them!  When did you get so boisterous?  LOL   Best regards.

This is the perfect example of a guy who has drunk his own kool aid.  I am a lawyer and I know well the danger of falling for my profession's own BS. 

Quoted from the OP "What most impresses me about PP Patrick and what I think you are reading into and seeing as somewhat an obfuscator of my objectivity is my immense respect for the PP stated business philosophies and values. I consult with companies to help them build strategy and part of that process includes philosophy, values clarification and commitments and I see PP and the Sterns being great exemplars of such a clear and congruent set of business beliefs that will take them far into the future. I am enamored with PP/Stern thinking more than anything at PP, the products though have much opportunity for innovation and positioning improvements. "

PP's marketing values sound great, probably made up by a consultant like yourself.  However, PP's follow through leaves much to be desired.  PP's so called values are a marketing message designed specifically to pull the hopes and dreams of the aspirational class who yearn to climb to the ranks of the capital owning aristocracy.  Patek's "generations" campaign tranforms a mundane object like a watch to a mystical class totem that the aspirational class thinks is the badge of entry into high society.  This is why Patek prints ads on the back covers of the magazines of the aspirational class like the economist and robb report.  Or did you think actual rich people need the robb report to tell them what to buy?

Reality check, a patek phillippe is just a watch, a very nice watch, but wearing one does not make you a capital owning aristocrat with rarified taste and a discerning eye.  The real aristocracy pass down things like boarding schools/prep schools, ivy league admissions, distinguised surnames on museums and hospital wings, social connections, family lawyers, large land estates, and means of production like control of a privately held enterprise or a lot of stock in a public fortune 500.  They dont place signifigance in passing down trinkets like watches as the patek marketing suggests, and when the aristocracy does pass down watches nine times out of ten its a rolex.

Lets face it, rolex has been the watch for people who matter since men started wearing wristwatches.  Carlos Slim, Warren Buffet, the men who control the world wear Rolex.  Patek, even in the 1950s was a brand for watch nerds.  A complication like minute repeater or prepetual calendar had about the same utility back then as it does today, which is to say, not very much.

Lets discuss how Patek backs up its purported values.  Frankly, I have never met a brand that holds its customers in as much contempt as Patek.  They act like they are doing you a favor by selling you a watch, with a "im not sure if youre good enough to be wearing a patek" attitude.  Patek says its watches are a generational hierloom and they will fix any watch, no matter how old.  I own a Ref:2530-1 from the 1950s and I learned the hard way that what Patek doesnt tell you is that the repair of an hierloom watch costs as much as a brand new Rolex and that by the time you get your hierloom watch back from Geneva, your newborn will have gotten his medical degree and it will be time to pass down the watch to him.

As for innovation? Patek is a joke here too.  Audemars literally bet the entire company on the Royal Oak.  Your much vaunted Nautilus was merely a shameless cash grab by Patek to cash in on Audemars's Royal Oak innovation and success, a full FOUR years later.  Gerard Genta himself basically said as much in published interviews.

How about the product itself?  A lot of patek watches are a joke for what they cost, does any other company charge 20k+ for a simple three hand watch with a pressure fit snap back case and a movement (215PS) that is about twenty years out of date?  For comparison, in a lange case,

First of all, Rolex makes not millions of watches annualy, but "only" cca. 700.000.  Second, even Patek's CEO Thierry Stern said in an interview that one of the watch brands he admires is Rolex, for their consistent high quality:

"Rolex is another one I respect a lot.  The quality of Rolex is fantastic, and to keep that so high making as many watches as they do is incredible.  I would love to see the Rolex factory, but they never let me in!"

Third, on accuracy.  While it's true I've only had a chance to own a single Rolex in my life (Submariner 116610LN), but its accuracy is beyond my expectations.  When it came out of the factory, it was consistently slow of approx. 1.5 to 1.8 seconds per day.  It's well within COSC specifications.  I was a bit annoyed at it being slow, so took it to the local Rolex service center where they regulated it -- and didn't even ask for any $$ for their work (!)  Since then the watch is fast, between 0.3 and 0.4 seconds per day.  No, I'm not saying that only Rolex can do this kind of accuracy, but I dare to say that you could regulate any post-1990 Rolex watches to similar accuracy.  To say that all Rolexes are 4+ seconds off per day is pure nonsense.

BTW, just for comparisons sake, my Royal Oak 15300ST is over 5 seconds fast per day.  Do I care? No, not really.  There're a few watches out there where nothing counts, only the aspiration of getting one, and then privilege of owning and wearing it every day.  I'm pretty sure that counts for most Pateks as well

It's okay to hate Rolex, but bending facts is not really fair...