WatchProSite|Market|Digest

WatchProSite|Market|Digest

Patek Philippe

Comments:

Patek 6000

By: MarcsPatek : July 21st, 2014-02:38

Hi guys,

This is my first post on this forum, and I have a question for you all.
I am planning on buying my first Patek Philippe soon. I really like the 6000 in white gold a lot. What do you think about this one? Would that be a good first Patek for investment and wearing most of the time, or are there better options? I also like the Patek 5297g. Would that be a better option? The watch will never be sold, but once I pass away it's going to my son. And I would like for him to have a watch that will be worth something once I pass away ( hopefully not sooner than 40 years haha )

Any help is appreciated

MarcsPatek, welcome at PuristSPro ...

By: small-luxury-world : July 21st, 2014-11:36

and especially at out Patek Philippe Forum.

The Ref. 6000G with black dial (first version) is a piece I liked a lot when it was introduced some years ago. There have been quite a few posts about it in the past and therefore I would recommend to use our search function. Back to your question about value. A watch that my father loved and used to wear a lot would be of great value to me, in any case. I your choice makes you smile it is the best value you can get, also for your son. Are you interested in the black or grey dial?

Oliver

patek dial

By: MarcsPatek : July 21st, 2014-12:19

They showed me the grey dial. I liked that a lot. I am not buying the watch to make any money. But let's say that my son doesn't like the watch anymore in about 40 years or so and he doesn't want it anymore and he wants to trade it for something else. I don't want him to loose to much on it. That's why I asked if there were better options from Patek, for around the same money or a little more .

"about 40 years or so"

By: small-luxury-world : July 21st, 2014-12:32

Sorry, me also don´t have a crystal ball.

Good luck with your decisions!

Oliver

I'm one of the rare people who love the 6000...

By: patrick_y : July 22nd, 2014-12:32

First of all; welcome. Welcome welcome welcome! Welcome to PuristSPro!

Secondly, I think buying a Patek Philippe is a very personal decision. Usually executed by strong-minded and decisive individuals who have good sense and good taste on their own. I'm slipping into the minority on this one, as Patek Philippes become more mainstream. Never bad to ask the experts for their opinions though.

Third, you're all over the map. While it's never bad to ask an expert for his opinion, you do need to give us an idea of what kind of person you are... The 5297G is very different from the 6000G. For instance, the 5297G is covered with diamonds... I think it's a very simple decision; do I want a jeweled showy watch? Or not?

I suppose you could've made a mistake and meant the 5296G, which is a closer watch to the 6000G.

You have to be a special person to like the 6000. Most people don't like it because the dial design with the date looks cumbersome. And I can see why.

So if you like it. Go for it. (maybe involve your son in the process)

Mechanically, the 6000 is much more interesting than the 5297. I'd consider the 5296 as it is (especially with the sector dial) is a beautiful watch.

The 5297 (and 5296) has a more common 324 movement whereas the 6000 has the super-cool (opinion) and thin (fact) 240 caliber with a awesome (opinion) micro rotor. The micro rotor is cool to look at; but will be less efficient at winding the watch. So if you're dead, or sit at a desk everyday, you may not be generating enough energy. Also, you shouldn't exercise with your watch on your wrist, but if you walk to work and are on your feet and make a lot of hand gestures, you'll be fine with the 240 caliber.

The 324 movement theoretically may be more accurate in theory (higher vibrations per hour), but in reality, they're both about the same.

You'll also notice all 240-caliber models with a second hand will have the sub-dial seconds at around 4 o'clock. Just a quirk of the movement.

The 6000 is also a great deal because it comes with the deployment clasp which you have to pay extra to get on the 5297 and get a new strap on the 5297 (the straps are different based on the buckle/clasp).

You mention your son will inherit this watch. I think the smartest thing to do is to see if he likes the dial design of the 6000. You want him to wear it. Remind your son to keep in mind that he will likely be wearing this watch 40+ years from now and to think about fashions, style, and trends. He should be thinking objectively and conservatively. Who knows, maybe in 40 years we don't wear watches at all?

I personally love the 6000 and I would get it over the 5297. Over the 5296G with sector dial? That'd be a harder choice.

There you have it; some facts, some opinions. I probably thought for a dozen minutes in this response. So let me know what you choose!

And again, welcome!

5227g

By: MarcsPatek : July 22nd, 2014-13:00

Thanks for your advise. I really appreciate it. I actually meant the 6000 or the 5227g. My autocorrect kinda messed up there. I saw both watches in person and they were both amazing pieces I really love the 6000 but do you think that the price will deteriorate more over time with the 6000 then with the 5227 just because it's less popular? And therefore would be a worse investment then the 5227? 5227 is cool because of the case you can open and close to see the movement. More classic looking then the 6000. It's gonna be one of the two. But both completely different pieces...

I have both the 6000G and the 5227G

By: Dave G : July 22nd, 2014-13:22

And they are quite different. The 5227G is very classic and indeed the hunter back is exceptional...much better than the one on the 5153. Of course Patek charges quite a bit for this simple time watch as a result. Conversely and as noted, you get the awesome 240 movement on the 6000G, a complication and the folding clasp for a lower price point.

The 6000 is also slightly smaller.

I wouldn't worry about value here and buy what you and your son will like. Both are produced in sizeable numbers.

Dave

Well said!

By: patrick_y : July 22nd, 2014-14:05

Well said! By someone who has first-hand experience with both.

The hinging on the hunter back in the 5227G is unusually good. That's definitely a difficult case to produce and I too agree it's better than the 5153.

Let's avoid the topic of money...

By: patrick_y : July 22nd, 2014-14:01

I have to avoid the topic of discussing money. As per the rules...

patek.watchprosite.com

And true aficionados won't be worried about the price deterioration.

The suggestion I made (which you didn't mention) will help you overcome your money problem. Your money problem stems from your desire for liquidity on behalf of your son. 40 years from now, watch collecting will probably be less popular. Like stamp collecting is on the decline. I've addressed your liquidity problem on behalf of your son by suggesting you involve your son in the decision process.

Forget the money. Forget the rationality. Just go with the one you like. You've got all the facts available to make the most informed decision possible, you are in the top 1% in terms of being informed about the 6000; most people make their decision with much less information and much lower quality information than you've received here. I can almost guarantee you that the sales professionals in 95%+ watch stores couldn't even tell you half the information as what's already been written in response to your post on this forum.

If you cannot make a decision based on what you like yourself, then no one can help you. After all, we are asking for your own personal preference among the two in terms of aesthetic design.

Auto-correct will correct numbers? I didn't know that. I don't think my computer is capable.

Why is watch collecting declining?

By: COUNT DE MONET : July 29th, 2014-05:35

The watch sale figures for Germany are immense.

Frankly not all are collectible watches that generated that sales figure but it shows that watches are still very popular.

Also, next to a car, is a watch a perfect status item.

Whether for the trained eye or the untrained: a golden Patek, or more obvious a Rolex, will be recognised as "expensive".

Best

Moritz

It's not...

By: patrick_y : July 30th, 2014-03:54

The watch market is not declining. In fact, the past 10 years have been among the best years for the watch industry.

But it's hard to say what will happen 40 years from now.

6000G all the way

By: keks : July 22nd, 2014-13:38

The 6000G in gray dial with a dark gray strap if I had it my way, but that is just my vote.

A far more exciting movement, slimmer profile and fit, the deployant clasp, and the versatility.

If you are getting something to wear regularly I would recommend getting something that fits your lifestyle the most.

As much as the 5227G is a pretty watch, it may be bit formal and dry. It is a safe watch, very classical and classy.

The 6000G works anywhere the 5227G would plus so many more which makes it far more wearable. And if it is a watch that makes you smile when you see it on your wrist, getting something that gets worn in more occasions will bring more smiles to you over the coming 40+ years, that is definitely something your son will appreciate.

Best of luck with the decision making. Savor the process for once you have made your purchase you may miss the sensation of deliberating and longing.

Savor the process...

By: patrick_y : July 22nd, 2014-14:31

I really like your post keks!

And I too really like the 6000. One of my favorite Patek Philippe watches.

I found your statement of interest:

"Best of luck with the decision making. Savor the process for once you have made your purchase you may miss the sensation of deliberating and longing."

I've always been so focused on the watches that I liked that there was little comparison needed. I've always found that I knew what I wanted. So the deliberation process has always been short. And when you buy things you absolutely LOVE, you can't make a mistake.

Patrick, I love your posts,

By: docsnov : July 22nd, 2014-18:08

it is like stream of consciousness relating to watches which is great. I had to go look at the watches being discussed as I can never picture the Patek watch in my mind from the reference number given. It amazes me when you guys rattle off all the references and you know exactly which model and what metal. I also wanted to chime in on this thread because it interests me when people ask for buying advise on two watches like this. I understand asking advise on technical specs but I have never understood asking advise on design or taste. You either like it or you don't. You like one better than the other. I value the knowledge people have on this forum but I am not going to make a choice between two watches based on the taste of someone else. I guess I haven't also been too concerned with what the watch I am buying will be worth in 40 years. Maybe I am too focused on the present. Hmm...

Stewart

Thank you!

By: patrick_y : July 23rd, 2014-16:01

That "stream of consciousness" (very elegantly put by the way) where model numbers are abled to be rattled off is just a crazy amount of nerd-like knowledge for the various watch brands and their models. I'm probably a mildly obsessed individual, and many people talk to me about watches, so it's an active memory that I've built up from all the practice and exercise I've gotten over the years. It may be a good thing to know all of the watch model numbers to the various brands, but outside of the watch community, others will look at someone with that capability as some sort of strange individual.

I could tell you that I also know all the various Porsche 911 car iterations including the air-cooled versions. Unless you're a car person, it probably doesn't excite you much.

There are definitely different schools of thought on the matter of soliciting advice from strangers; but yes, I don't think it's wise to let an audience advise you on certain things. It's like if I go onto an investments blog and just randomly ask what kind of stocks and funds I should invest in and not mention my investment style and risk tolerance.

When you ask an audience for advice, you inevitably get more opinion than fact. I like to deal in facts, not opinions.

There's a company here in Silicon Valley worth billions of dollars called YELP. Yelp is a platform that allows individuals whom have no experience nor any expertise give their opinion on just about any business; business to consumer mostly. In the end, you get a tremendous amount of unqualified people whom make long-winded opinionated comments about their experience (usually dining experiences, which is already subjective to begin with). I would advise users of YELP to be cautious and keep in mind the quality of the reviews and the quality of the reviewers. When I was in grade school, I was taught to read critically and to hunt for bias.

Thank you for reading Stewart and I enjoy reading your posts too! Thank you for your contributions to the forums!

It is ironic you bring up YELP,

By: docsnov : July 23rd, 2014-19:03

as I was out in your neck of the woods on vacation a few weeks ago (Yosemite, Sequoia, San Francisco) and I wanted to look at watches in SF. In my home area there are no luxury watch dealers above Rolex/Omega so if I can I like to ogle some watches when I travel. I put some search terms into my Ipad and was taken to YELP. I used it to locate stores but did not pay much attention to the reviews of the stores. I also bring this up because I am somewhat behind the times when it comes to computers, apps, etc. and I mentioned to my wife that I used this great site to help find watch dealers in the Bay area. She proceeded to laugh at me and let me know that YELP has been around for quite some time while giving me the you are a moron look. I continued by asking her about this facebook and twitter that everyone is talking about thus cementing my moron status in her eyes. On the subject of watch dealers San Fran. has a really nice Tourbillon boutique. They have a lot of nice pieces at that store, I have been to Tourbillon in NYC, Vegas, and Seattle and the SF location had the largest inventory and largest number of high end Breguet, Blancpain, and GO pieces. I enjoyed looking at what they had and talking with one of the salespeople there. I also visited a nice Montblanc boutique and dropped by the Tourneau, where I picked up my first Patek, a preowned 5035 annual calendar in yellow gold. It was kind of an impulse buy but I fricking love it! I am becoming more and more comfortable with thinner smaller watches and the size and feel of this watch is great, dial layout is great, just a really cool kind of vintage looking piece. I had wondered why people would pay the premium for Patek watches but I can kind of understand it after wearing this one for a little while. Anyway, that is what YELP will get you. Locations of watch stores leading to impulse purchases of PP watches. Thank god for the internet

Stewart

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area...

By: patrick_y : July 23rd, 2014-19:34

I live in the SF Bay Area. Any particular store that you liked besides Tourbillon?

I can't say I frequent the local Tourbillon store. The store's staff is not particularly engaging (nobody there really likes watches or understands them, probably the norm in the industry) but I can't say there is a store in the area where there really is a watch enthusiast employee.

Anyways, YELP will live on. If I joined that company however, I would do a revamp of the platform.

I only had time

By: docsnov : July 23rd, 2014-20:01

to go to the Tourbillon, the Tourneau, and the Montblanc boutique which I happened to walk by. I feel weird sometimes in Tourbillon stores because the sales people are trained to give you certain phrases or stats that imply knowledge of the watches, but they are obviously not enthusiasts or fanatics like people on this forum, i.e. me. But there is a lot of eye candy in that store in San Fran. There are a lot of high end pieces, just fun to look at. I feel sometimes I know more about the watches than the salespeople do. Are there locally owned places other than chain stores and boutiques that have good stuff to look at? I love San Francisco, much more so than southern California as far a place to travel to for vacation, but I wonder if SoCal has a larger collection of high end watches in a condensed location. I look forward to coming back to the Bay area soon.

Stewart

I assure you...

By: patrick_y : July 24th, 2014-10:34

I assure you that you definitely know more about watches than the people in watch sales at that specific Tourneau store.

I think that overall these employees are given a very thorough training. However, they only retain a very small amount of it. And then their social compatibility creates difficulties for engagement.

The final result is a distanced sales person who can't really get in touch with you and can't fathom your thought process.

There are definitely other stores in San Francisco worth looking at. Next time you're in town, shoot me an email or private message and I'll inform you of the latest and greatest.

haha

By: Leinad : July 29th, 2014-20:53

That's funny and sad in the same time , I invite you to Cayman Islands, you might change your mind in regards to finding staff watch lovers

I'll have to visit!

By: patrick_y : July 30th, 2014-03:56

It's always nice to find a jewel of a person like the one you mentioned somewhere. They're rarer than the watches and jewels they sell.

No plans to visit the Cayman Islands unfortunately.

Thanks patrick_y for those kind words

By: keks : July 22nd, 2014-22:10

It is not always easy to choose when there are so many wonderful timepieces out there.

The longing and deliberating is something I genuinely enjoy (along with some agony of course) as it keep the dreams alive.

Thank you all

By: MarcsPatek : July 23rd, 2014-03:48

Thanks for all the information and nice words everyone. And indeed I am gonna savor the process of buying the Patek. Reading some books and brochures about Patek as we speak. Maybe someday I will know as much about Patek as you guys.

I can see that...

By: patrick_y : July 23rd, 2014-16:03

It really isn't easy to choose among all of the excellent pieces on the market. But I usually fall in love with one, and thankfully one at a time. I almost look at watches as a marriage (not really, but some analogies do exist).

A Watch That Fits Your Lifestyle

By: patekova : July 23rd, 2014-08:52

I think that Keks comment, "If you are getting something to wear regularly I would recommend getting something that fits your lifestyle the most.",

is very perceptive and for 95% of people extremely important to factor in. Then there is the other 5% (I include myself here), that says to hell with convention, wear what you love and be less concerned with societal lifestyle views. I think a 5970 or a 5227 or 6000 for that matter goes great with a pair of jeans. Most people would disagree. I would recommend that you buy the watch that YOU would enjoy wearing with YOUR lifestyle, even if it doesn't fit conventional views of fashion or "good taste".

As far as retaining value, watches may fall out of fashion. Patek may not always be, well Patek. 40 years ...who knows anything about that?

What your son will like in 40 years? How could he or anyone else know what will appeal to them in 40 years?

There is one certainty. Life is short. Do what will make YOU happy. Forget all the rest. IMHO you can't go wrong if you do that.

Best, patekova

With a pair of jeans or of while singing nude in public

By: keks : July 23rd, 2014-11:09

any Patek works in my opinion. I agree to hell with conventions.

What I referred to with the comment fitting with lifestyle is how one chooses to display ones identity. If a diamond dial is it that is awesome, if it isn't that is awesome as well. As long as one is comfortable and feel it expresses his or her individuality the most. That will ensure it gets the most wrist time and smiles over the years.

You actually never pay for a Patek. You merrily spend the money of the next genaration...

By: COUNT DE MONET : July 29th, 2014-03:54

... is how I understand Patek's advertising champagne.

Buy whatever pleases your eyes most and see if it will keep the value in the future.

Real investment Pateks are not for the common people to acquire.

Sounds harsh but there is social injustice in every layer of society.

Best

Moritz

Truth in advertising [nt]

By: watchthatman : August 2nd, 2014-17:12

No message body