Comments:
If we look at Behrens, we see a Chinese brand that is trying to establish its own catalogue of attractive watches at reasonable prices.
Of course, there are plenty of cheap imitations, but China is set to gain a lot of attention, from small independents to big manufacturers.
That said, given the little human touch behind the manufacturing processes, the majority of Swiss brands are overpriced in the modern era of CNC and other technologies
Are Some Swiss Timepiece Manufacturers Pricing Themselves Out Of The Market?
A bit preemptive in writing this, perhaps, yet we've been seeing pricing going up at a staggering rate. Those familiar with the constant de valuation of currencies know it is a major problem that is getting far worse with each passing debt interest-only payment. None of us has direct control over how irresponsible central banks are at mismanaging their one and only currency product. But now that the pricing of timepieces from Switzerland are reaching levels that we're now seeing complaints here on WPS.... With new modern CNC / etc machines and less need for 'by hand' polishing, thanks to modern machinery doing much of the workload, shouldn't pricing be coming down?
QUESTION: Do you feel, to some extent, that Swiss manufacturers are pricing themselves far too high for the product they are offering?
BONUS QUESTION: Would you buy a made in England, USA, or other countries if they offered the same or higher quality for 60% of the Swiss price?
PS: Photo created by my personal AI Assistant.
The short answer is Yes, to the Swiss ( some German brands are equally guilty ) for pricing themselves out of the market.
I might consider British and perhaps US brands, depending on the style and finishing. No insult intended to either country or brand.
It’s an excellent question that you are posing.
Lovely piece, and horology is machines and humans. We have those pretty much everywhere globally.
Every day i wake up is a good day.
Plus there's Historic Racing at WGI this weekend. Six hours of pure fun 🫶😎
My Man Larry the Brotherman what's shakin baby 😎
This watch is far out, Qian GuoBiao is one talented dude, it's called Facing the Sky 😍 Super Trippy
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Catch ya Later Player 😁👍
www.watchprosite.com /
Catch ya Later Player 😁👍
Yes and yes …
I have a soft spot for Swiss watches but, innovation and quality are not exclusively available in Switzerland.
Well said, and lovely photo. Horology of sorts began in ancient Egypt and Greece. The British and French greatly contributed innovation to what many consider modern watchmaking.
You pose a very interesting question and make some good points.
To your first question are they pricing themselves out of the market, Not really as they heavily researched and to some extent know just what their customers and the market will bear and tolerate. I think it's important to remember and maybe even point out why these companies exist in the first place and it is not to be their customers' friend or even to be liked by them. It is quite simply to make a profit and as much of it as possible and this is the only thing that really makes any item so expensive. These companies of course have a pleathra of reasons to justify their prices such as R&D, material costs, labour, marketing etc etc but at the end of the day it really is just their desire for profit that makes items expensive. Just look at the absurd amount a precious metal version of a stainless steel watch costs when the precious metal content is hard pushed to reach even $1000 of extra cost.
Of course the above applies mainly to larger corporate entities and not independents but then not all independents are created equal or act in the same way.
As to your bonus question the simple answer is Yes but there is much more involved then just price IMHO.
Marc
Yes, and yes.
And I’ll raise another question for the learned members of our forum.
Without hard data, rather solely based on anecdotal data ingrained in my mind from just being in this space as a buyer over the last two or more decades, it seems to be that Rolex have had the more tempered price increases over the last two decades or so and at the same time seem to have leveraged modern technology to bring a better product to market along with those price increases. Their product is more expensive, but it also seems to be a better product too.
Other manufacturers seem to have increased pricing but perhaps not seen any material innovation and in some cases may have actually offer us a less valuable product.
The above is as I say based on just my perception and isn’t supported by any hard data. But I really do feel a lot of watches from big established brands are way way overpriced; and this is true across many price points.
Very interesting points.
Agree, Rolex pricing for SS seem rather sane while also showcasing real-world movement improvements in not just accuracy, but in longevity between service intervals. Rolex also decorates their movements... even in places never seen by the customer.
For other 'Swiss' mechanical timepiece manufacturers, the story might be starkly different. Seems to me even small efforts of movement decoration are being ignored by some Big Box manufacturers, or they only decorate a tiny bit that might be seen in a display back. Kinda misleading imho, definitely a 'cheapening' of the product imho as compared to Rolex.
And plate sandblasting is not a movement 'finish' that takes any real effort imho. At least the industry could... well, you know, don't make it sound like it is something so very special and expensive to do. Is it only me who sees this happening ???
For other 'Swiss' mechanical timepiece manufacturers, the story might be starkly different. Seems to me even small efforts of movement decoration are being ignored by some Big Box manufacturers, or they only decorate a tiny bit that might be seen in a display back. Kinda misleading imho, definitely a 'cheapening' of the product imho as compared to Rolex.
And plate sandblasting is not a movement 'finish' that takes any real effort imho. At least the industry could... well, you know, don't make it sound like it is something so very special and expensive to do. Is it only me who sees this happening ???
NOTE: Technically, virtually anything could be called 'decoration', tho i hope true fans of horology understand there's hand decoration of various techniques (some being quite challenging / much-talent is needed), machine decoration (thank a computer programmer).... and sandblasting (normal procedure) a 'finish' after machining.
Alot of these watches
appear to be produced in small batches, so there doesn't seem to be a ton of inventory risk. Modern Swiss watches appear to be the preferred currency of corruption and money Laundering in much of the world, so the higher the price the better from those use cases. You are looking at it from the prospective of a watch buyer / user / collector and that may be the wrong lens here.
Interesting points.
Guess diamonds have become worth less, so......
ADDED: Oh my, if Private Equity starts getting involved in horology as they're doing in the U.S. with real-estate... we could all be scr@wed. 
Maybe some small alternative funds
That’s who funded the platforms ala 1916.
But this market is far too small for a meaningful PE player. Hedge funds are providing the backstop bids for the auction houses so there is that. As for diamonds, I think the bid offer spread is inferior compared to a bunch of Daytona’s or Journe’s
But this market is far too small for a meaningful PE player. Hedge funds are providing the backstop bids for the auction houses so there is that. As for diamonds, I think the bid offer spread is inferior compared to a bunch of Daytona’s or Journe’s
Interesting point. In a couple cases regarding pre-owned watches on a certain internet watch sales platform, I had the eerie sensation that I was dealing with a money laundering operation.
Until your post I had never seen anyone mention money laundering in connection with watches.
I know someone who gave the mayor's wife a Rolex to get
planning approval in Sardinia(? I think it was). It's basically untraceable and while it's not totally liquid, it is preferred given how impossible it is to trace.
Yes and yes. I like the British matchmaking aesthetic and would love to see more artisanal watchmaking from Asia
Very happy with my Garrick. I would love to see more work like this out of the UK, right now there's a huge white space in the UK between micro brand like Fears and the super high end like RWS and Frodsham.
Yes!!! The big action going on within the UK is very EPIC!!! All are welcome, your fans await!
Yes and no
No because these are luxury goods. As long as customers will pay the price, brands will continue to charge exorbitant costs. Yes, because for someone like me, I don’t like to pay new prices. If you can be patient and wait a year or two, (sometimes less) most “hot new releases” typically go down in value. And I am happy buying at pre-owned prices in the secondary market. With Rolex and a handful of other hype-train models from other brands of course being the exception to this secondary market pricing rule. Great topic, thanks for posting!
Well said, "As long as customers will pay the price, brands will continue to charge exorbitant costs" and i agree, especially in bubble financing.
...until they don't. Thankfully, the next financial bubble may once again be kind to horology. This past bubble was wonderful, with many newcomers and new artisans coming forward.
Double yes
If we look at Behrens, we see a Chinese brand that is trying to establish its own catalogue of attractive watches at reasonable prices.
Of course, there are plenty of cheap imitations, but China is set to gain a lot of attention, from small independents to big manufacturers.
That said, given the little human touch behind the manufacturing processes, the majority of Swiss brands are overpriced in the modern era of CNC and other technologies
Yes and yes…
To the first question, with some exceptions the industry has been rather stagnant and investment poor for decades. The small size of the overall watch market makes it a tiny industry. And the short term approach of many players (in complete contrast to their marketing) worsens the situation.
There are exceptions, such as Rolex, which are pretty good in terms of mass manufacturing and productivity improvements. The Swatch Group has also seen invested heavily but not sure if they are reaping the same rewards (the industry is too closed off for an easy analysis). The last time when there was real competition was the 70s - it was actually the manufacturing prowess of the Japanese that terminally damaged many weaker Swiss brands much more than the quartz crisis. Where Hayek was great was at changing the game to one the Swiss could play more easily, I.e. change the watches to a Veblenian good, where efficiency was much less of a concern.
In terms of pricing, above ca. €2-3k or so it’s much more about what the market will bear and there’s a low correlation to the actual manufacturing costs.
As for other countries, gladly. Where Switzerland really has an advantage is that it possesses a great supplier base that other countries are hard put to replicate. That also means that many manufacturers from other countries need to make more themselves as there is less of a usable and competitive supplier base.