Comments:
Calibre 950
Calibre 391
Ref. Q413257J
Calibre 759
The Jeager-Lecoultre Problem - Have you watched it?
Hello all,
Not particularly fan of the slightly-too-energetic-and-too-superficial-for-my-taste presenter, but this video turned up on my youtube app (I guess I watch slightly too many videos on JLC 
I watched it and thought she was actually making some good points:
- Lack of GADA entry level model. From her comparison, I think the only GADA watch by JLC was the Master Compressor series, I don't think the basic master control date works as it is rather pricey, rather luxurious and only 50mWR. We need something there, I totally agree!
- Overpriced: no comment to be added there, we all saw the spike in price for all models... Could the prices go down after having been raised?
- Lack of brand recognition: I also feel that JLC is resting on its laurels (laurels that were received a very long time ago and kept up to the late 2000s). Even on this forum, we mostly celebrate the past of JLC. This is quite shocking compared to other brand sub-forums here.
- Missing brand identity: for this point, I don't think I am influenceable by marketing or "ambassadors". This is a side of the business I don't give much attention to. However, I quite agree with her comments regarding the colour of the background, the detached attitude of the models showcasing the watches and maybe the overall lack of energy of the adds. But I love all the adds introducing employees, their skills, la vallée de Joux, etc. I also much prefer a chat with Stéphane Belmont, Matthieu Sauret or any employees of JLC. I wouldn't know what to ask to Nicholas Hoult about JLC! I still love seeing the few videos where Christian Laurent presents the Duomètre for example, etc. For me this represents much more JLC.
- Opportunities: Here she mentions collaborations. I don't know how much this would bring. The risk could be to be stuck with some poor collaborations with other brands that are currently hype but which will disappear in a few years. I am not sure collabs sell 1000s of watches. Maybe you know better. There has been a recent change at the helm of JLC, maybe Jérôme Lambert will bring another steer and answer this "Jaeger-Lecoultre problem"? This is the opportunity! Let's hope so!
I would be very happy to read your comments.
Best,
E.
Ok, so they're cheaper to buy used and the marketing hype machine has failed...?
Most of that works out just fine for me. Buy them depreciated 12-24 months later and focus on older models if you don't like the current offerings. As for "brand equity" or marketing concerns, most collectors don't need to worry about that. It's Richemont's problem.
Best,
Tim
I agree! I'm in the same position as you: buying used models from the glorious past. But it is a pity that I do not consider at all to buy new, whereas I would consider it with other brands...
I see this point. A Master Minute Repeater for $45k, lots of folks loving seeing that.
There are opportunities to be had if one likes the brand.
Hi, E.
The reasons why I'm personally not as attracted to JLC as I would like to be are quite different from the ones mentioned by Britt Pearce: the lack of 'Rolex-like' entry-level models, the very dull appearance of the ads, the lack of partnership with famous people, etc.: none of this matters to me (but I certainly understand that it can matter to someone else).
What bothers me personally concerns the following points:
- the Reverso is iconic and some models are really great (e.g. the recent Tribute Chronographs, ref. Q389257J & Q389848J), but, for me, there are way too many Reversos all over the place now; though iconic, this design doesn't feel special enough anymore (my very personal feeling only, of course)
- the finishing of the very high-end calibers doesn't seem to me to be completely on par with the best from Lange or Patek: for example, where are the interior angles on the calibre 950 or the 391?
- some models could be absolutely great, like the Master Control Chronograph Calendar ref. Q413257J, but they come a little short on certain aspects: why isn't this model an annual calendar (why simple calendar only)? And how comes that the central rotor caliber looks like almost all the other central rotor calibers of the brand, with unexciting design and very average finishing?
Just my 2 cents concerning a brand I don't know well enough. And I think each of us might have his own definition of 'the JLC problem' (if ever there is such a problem) based on his own personal expectations and dreams.
Best,
Emmanuel
Calibre 950
Calibre 391
Ref. Q413257J
Calibre 759
The "JLC Problem" - A little hard to listen but worth a go.
E., you bring up an interesting discussion about JLC's current struggles and potential ways forward. The video’s four main points—lack of an accessible GADA model, pricing issues, brand recognition challenges, and identity concerns—are well-articulated, and I’d say most seasoned collectors would nod in agreement.
JLC could launch a new all-purpose, under-10K steel sports watch with 100m WR, a slim case, and classic styling—perhaps inspired by vintage Polaris/Geophysic models.
1.No Strong Entry-Level "GADA" Watch
JLC has never truly had aGet Anywhere, Do Anything(GADA) watch that competes with the Rolex Explorer, Omega Aqua Terra, or even the IWC Mark series. The Master Compressor series came close, but it’s long gone. The Master Control Date is indeed too dressy and too fragile (50m WR isn’t enough for a "one-watch collection" candidate).Solution:JLC could launch a new all-purpose, under-10K steel sports watch with 100m WR, a slim case, and classic styling—perhaps inspired by vintage Polaris/Geophysic models.
2.Pricing Issues
Pricing has shot up across all brands, but JLC lacks the status or perceived value to justify it. A Reverso or Master Control at $12-15K competes with a solid gold Rolex Day-Date on the secondary market—that's a tough sell for many buyers.Solution:- More transparency in pricing strategy.
- Limited editions with true value (not just dial swaps).
- Offering competitive steel models at an attractive price point.
3.Brand Recognition Weakness
JLC is well-known among enthusiasts but invisible in the mainstream. Unlike Rolex, AP, or even Cartier, JLC isn’t on the general public’s radar.Solution:- Stronger ambassador choices (not just actors, but industry icons, artists, or even engineers).
- More engaging storytelling about their technical prowess (they’re the “watchmaker’s watchmaker,” but few outside the enthusiast space know why).
- Pushing unique historical models more aggressively.
- Mechanica Cal 185 " Reverso Quadriptyque "( 2021) review by Nico the-in-depth-review-of-the-jaeger-lecoultre-hybris-mechanica-cal-185--reverso-quadriptyque-
4.Brand Identity Crisis
The Reverso is a design icon, but beyond that, what does JLC stand for? Is it a sports brand, a dress watch brand, a technical innovator?Solution:- Define their modern identity and lean into it.
- Revive classic tool watches like what they did the Geophysic, Master Compressor and DeepSea.
- Improve advertising: JLC's heritage is fascinating, but their campaigns feel flat compared to Omega or Cartier.
The Jerome Lambert Factor
Lambert was at JLC in itsbestera (early 2000s), when we saw the Reverso Squadra, Master Compressor, and Duomètre. If he’s coming back, that could be a positive shift—he understands how to balance innovation with heritage.I know what you mean.
I've been recording watch videos on YouTube for ten years going on eleven, and I've probably spent ten minutes going on eleven listening to YT wristwatch channels. Most are an ear sore - for too many reasons to list.
Best,
Tim
Best,
Tim
So you have spent 10 to 11 minutes
And that was enough to conclude that *most* are an ear sore for too many reasons to list?
I like your stuff, I watch a fair number of your live shows but this sounds a tad, how shall one say, conceited? In life, not just in the watch world, it is good to partake in a variety of views to avoid blowing your own bubble. Is every view as well-reasoned or balanced as the next? You will never find out if you do not investigate
I like your stuff, I watch a fair number of your live shows but this sounds a tad, how shall one say, conceited? In life, not just in the watch world, it is good to partake in a variety of views to avoid blowing your own bubble. Is every view as well-reasoned or balanced as the next? You will never find out if you do not investigate
I second this:
“ JLC could launch a new all-purpose, under-10K steel sports watch with 100m WR, a slim case, and classic styling—perhaps inspired by vintage Polaris/Geophysic models”
It's very interesting to read the insight of someone who knows the brand much better than I do.
And what a beautiful GM Réveil! I like the Amvox too, but that Réveil steels my heart...
I don't take out the Master Grand Réveil out often maybe I try tomorrow. Will have a lot clicking the pusher since 2021/2
With all the credit in the world to Miss Pearce...
Miss Pearce is a new person in an old game. And I don't think she's fully understood the marketplace despite her number of views and rising status as an influencer would suggest. She offers no catharsis nor any revelation here in this video. Perhaps she's pandering to beginner collectors.
The simplest fact is that JLC is a middling brand. In nearly any product world you either need to be THE BEST (think the Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, Lange, Audemars Piguet, Rolex, and Breguet brands which are recognized as the best - yes, Rolex is recognized as the best sports watch), THE FASTEST TO MARKET (think small independent brands with quirky designs like MING), THE CHEAPEST/BARGAINS (think G Shock, Seiko), or THE INSANELY PRICED (we don't care much for Jacob & Co, but the brand gets a lot of recognition because they are often the most expensive in their category). JLC is in the middle with an "in-the-middle" price point.
Hi, my name is Mr. Moyen. I'm a middle class individual, with a middle-management job, with average interests, I live in an average house, and I drive a mid-sized white sedan, petrol 2.0 liter. I wear a Jaeger-LeCoultre. None of that sounds especially unique. Nobody here is dying to meet Mr. Moyen. However, Mr. Moyen is probably a great person, a loyal friend, and a great neighbor in his community - we just don't know since he seems so average on paper.
The vast majority of people want a Rolex - it's practical, it's recognizable, and unfortunately value retention is a factor for many people's decisions and Rolex is a known commodity.
The people who really want to show that they have something really special want something more special; a Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, or an Audemars Piguet is what appeals to them.
But there isn't really a big niche of people who would necessarily want a JLC watch. Those are people who really like watches. But don't mind the fact that JLCs are sometimes a little too thick (eschewing the French style), don't mind that JLC's finishing is a little too dry, and don't mind that JLCs are rarely superlative at the more "normal" price points. JLC isn't cheap enough to be cheap. And isn't good enough to be among "The Best."
So focusing on that last sentence. JLC isn't cheap enough to be "a bargain" and the standard product isn't good enough to be among "The Best." If you gave that information to any analyst, they would say this company is not likely to see significant growth unless something abnormal happens.
This is common in all luxury goods. People don't want an above average product at an above average price. They want super-good products at super-high prices or they want average products at lower prices.
Oh, he knows.
He's all about playing JLC's strengths. And he did that fairly quite well. The problem is that it's hard to market your strengths. And the brand has been pushed so upmarket that we're in a space where they're in the right price zone, but at a zone where the average buyer hasn't understood diminishing marginal returns. Say you're a Tudor owner of a $4,000 steel Tudor, and you want to buy a $8000 steel JLC. The JLC is twice as much money, but not twice as much watch in most people's eyes. And this buyer at this level is not usually aware that there are decreasing marginal returns. A lot of difficulties. JLC used to really educate their clients with their catalogue. Especially in the 90s when they would show excerpts about individuals who worked at the firm. Now, they've stopped that and the retail salespeople can't do a great job.
True... was just at another Richemont brand Boutique several weeks ago to have a bracelet resized. The salespeople butchered the screws, weren't able to remove any links, and ultimately after calling the Beverly Hills Boutique...
....told me to just go to a local watchmaker (which I did and had the job done satisfactorily in a matter of minutes). I'm not sure if many of these salespeople really know what they're doing, unfortunately.
I can tell you that salespeople receive some training before they're put on the floor. But I can't say they retain a lot of it.
The salespeople sit through an online training that tells them the product lines, the history, and some basics about the brand, they do this at the same time they do their online sexual harassment training (sorry for the crude statement, this isn't supposed to be funny and it's not a joke). Basically the training is all on a computer and is not always taken seriously - in some countries/provinces, when you get a speeding ticket, you have to attend traffic school - and the average traffic school attendee isn't concentrating fully. Salespeople are generally not always great at learning things - very few retail salespeople were straight A students. Furthermore, school children are young, and their minds are pliable and sponge-like. They learn quickly. Adults learn a little slower. And without passion and some understanding of technical basics, it's hard to get salespeople to learn this stuff.
A local fella came out of a Lange boutique today and the boutique employee installed his strap incorrectly. And this salesperson has probably attended a thorough two week training course. So... do we blame the trainer? Or do we blame the student?
A local fella came out of a Lange boutique today and the boutique employee installed his strap incorrectly. And this salesperson has probably attended a thorough two week training course. So... do we blame the trainer? Or do we blame the student?
I very much agree with your analysis.
I know too little about JLC, but what you write seems to me to be very relevant.
I probably should've just focused on the last few sentences.
JLC isn't priced low enough to be a bargain and the standard product isn't good enough to be among "the best" products. Which puts it in a middling territory. A no man's land. And thus, only watch lovers really understand and appreciate the brand!
Some of the perceived issues are attractive to me.
I like that JLC is an enthusiast brand. Models like the Amvox 7, True Second, and Extreme LAB2 bring unique designs and complications at comparatively attainable prices. I would like to see an Extreme Lab 3 developed that brings the look and tech of the EL2 in a 42mm case and 12mm thickness while being produced in quantities that allow for sub $20K pricing. This would highlight their sporty and technical prowess.
EVERY single watch JLC creates should be available with metal bracelet
That alone will help increase market interest
True, it’s all a matter of perspective
It’s probably a good thing “influencers” don’t understand or appreciate JLC
From my perspective...
having been around the brand for 31 years, it takes real vision and emotional attachment to sell a brand with passion.
Jerome Lambert, who started with JLC in '96 and then was thrust into the driver's seat when (1) Gunther Blumlein passed and (2) JLC had recently been purchased by Richemont for the highest price for any watch brand to date, drove the brand tirelessly and with passion for a decade. During that time, the Compressors (PLEASE, JR, update and re-release this family!), the 8-day Reversos, the AmVox series were all released and the brand became many of my friends' "favorite brand." But the 3 successive CEOs didn't have their heads or hearts in the game. They were just "doing time" at JLC.
My hope is that Jerome will wisely expand the brand's appeal again, but also give us a reason to pay the higher prices (better movement finishing) that true watchanistas appreciate.
Time will tell. Lord knows, almost no other brand has the DNA and pedigree of JLC. Even Thierry Stern in 2015 when asked who he thought the "next best brand was" replied, "The ONLY brand like us, is Jaeger-LeCoultre." I believe Thierry has a deep respect for the brand. But JLC has not had the hype that Patek, AP and others have received from the Hip-Hop & Rap artists - and this may be a good thing. But at the end of the day, for many people, they aren't going to spend their hard-earned dollars on something with no "bragging rights," even if they are as great as JLC really is.
Just my 2 cents.
-Dean
Y'all are missing the point.
She's pretty and she's talking about watches. You're not supposed to be thinking this hard!