Omega

I’ve owned this humble, yet quite complicated (from complications 😏), Omega for many years.  I like it very much mainly because of the smaller size (compared to the 42mm icon) and because it functions remarkably well.  Every complication works flawlessly, it has an impressive power reserve (I haven’t timed it but it seems to never stop when I use it), and keeps time with amazing accuracy.  Now, why such a reliable watch with so many complications costs a few thousand dollars and a simple steel (usually not so reliable) Patek, for instance, costs SO much more?  Does it make logical sense? 

Both are excellent, but for fundamentally different reasons.Hand-Finishing: Countless man-hours of hand-polishing and decorating parts you never see.

I still keep three PP, the rest I’ve sold.

But then again, the devil is in the details....

…that being said, if you ever get an opportunity to handle a Patek chronograph in comparison to this ETA based model Omega, you’ll understand immediately what the term ‘refinement’ means.

I certainly respect any opinions on incredible haute horological, but, it is not me…I appreciate that these are incredible machines, but, too me, I love the history behind watches, love the stories, etc. but, at the end of the day, love a vintage Rolex, love a speedmaster, seamaster, and others…I personally think a speedmaster, given its history, and NASA relationship, saving the crew of Apollo 13…well, that is pretty hard to beat…and now makes me miss having one, despite cycling through some…I think I need to get one back in the mix…thanks for the post…could I get a Patek, yes, is it for me? No.

Omega 250 parts maybe 40-80 man hours.
High complications Patek 1000 parts at least 2000 man hours probably more. One watchmaker. Is about 2200 hr a year. Just my guess.

Reality check fwiw (the graphic is adjusted to volume, so represents both high complications and entry level) (I own a modern Speedmaster & a modern PP). That said, i do enjoy my PP. It has so many different visuals depending on the light. It is not a bad watch at all.

For production and average retail price figures, I relied on the 2022 watch industry report by Morgan Stanley and LuxeConsult, data provided by brands, and published interviews with brand executives.

Source:
www.google.com

But relatively speaking 10hours at the low and 100 for complications is still 10x the cost.  The links are broken to the pdf document so just as a teaser. 

• Sky Moon Tourbillon Ref. 6002G
  Patek’s official release specifies:
  “The engraving of the case alone requires more than one hundred hours of work.”
  (Patek Philippe – Sky Moon Tourbillon press release, PDF on patek.com)
• Grandmaster Chime Ref. 5175R
  In Patek’s official material:
  “Each case is hand-engraved by a master artisan, requiring several hundred hours of work.”
  (Patek Philippe – Grandmaster Chime press release, PDF on patek.com)

 

Component / Watch Type	Time Estimate
Minute repeater assembly	Up to 300 hours
Engraving on Sky Moon Tourbillon (Ref. 6002)	Over 100 hours
Full R&D + manufacturing (e.g. Calibre 89, Supercomplication)	Years, translating to thousands of hours

Perhaps you're asking the wrong question: Why is the Omega multiples the price of the Tissot?  

A lot of what you address includes the feeling that people have in their minds and on their wrists, along with marketing hype and illogical market pricing and manipulation.

If I were shipwrecked on an island, I would want a Rolex over a grand complication Patek Philippe. A Ferrari is not going to be as reliable as a Toyota (although Ferrari would argue a Ferrari would be more reliable than a Toyota when both are driven extremely aggressively). Anything extremely complex is going to be expensive and also less reliable as something relatively simple. But it depends on what you value. If you want something that is exquisitely made, probably unreliable, a status symbol, and aesthetically beautiful; buy a top-tier high horology watch. If you want something industrially made, mostly reliable, less of a status symbol, then buy an Omega/Rolex. There are many people who don't value cars and drive extremely ordinary cars. But value other things - I met a Stanford professor who was very financially successful - wore the finest clothes made with wools milled in Napoli, Italy; Lange timepieces, but drove an 10+ year old ordinary automobile. This is very normal. Almost everyone has their "normal moment" and everyone has their "special moment."
I've never had a major problem with my Pateks - except a bracelet screw that wouldn't come out of my Nautilus that had to be sent back to the service center when the watch was brand new. And ironically, my Chopard Alpine Eagle runs very inaccurately at times. Some days it can be around two dozen seconds fast!

Astronauts wore these watches on the outside of their space suits on the surface of the moon. A test I would remind you that Rolex failed. Furthermore Omega does also produce some extremely haute horology pieces. Nothing on Patek …their reputation speaks for itself but so does Omegas.

First of all, perhaps you think I'm presenting Omega and Toyota as "lesser" products - I'm not downplaying Toyota nor Omega - they make fine products, I even own an Omega Moonwatch myself - and I have no intention of going to outer space. Second of all, it's not exactly a critical part of the conversation - it is more an in-general aspect stating an average Toyota is extremely reliable in certain normal conditions and probably not the most reliable on the racetrack; and stating that a Ferrari is less-than-average for road reliability but is about average for racetrack reliability - in other words the Ferrari excels in one area where the Toyota is weak. And third, it's a matter of perspective - I think the analogy works fairly well - true, it's not perfect - no analogy ever is perfect. Fact: Toyota does produce some amazing cars. The Toyota Century is in some ways equivalent to a Rolls Royce - so Toyota definitely makes "haute voiture" products too. The Toyota Land Cruiser SUV being another top product; astronauts wear Omegas to the moon, well big-time scientists would drive Land Cruisers all over Africa and the desert in the Middle East. Toyota has an impressive reputation for reliability, excellent quality, and they pioneered just-in-time manufacturing. If you argue Omega and Toyota are not analogous, is there a more fitting analogy? And if Brand X is a more fitting analogy to you... Could someone else say it's not a great analogy too?

but I do actually own a Toyota Tundra (🤦🏻‍♂️) for many of the same reasons I own an Omega (could easily afford a Range Rover but to be honest I would never EVER rely on one) having said that I also think there are differences as I would not attach the word luxury to Toyota (maybe Land Cruiser?) but I definitely would say Omega is a luxury brand capable of some of the finest work (I reference Quattros platinum skeleton post if that’s not haute what is?) anyway it’s an interesting discussion and totally appropriate for WPS…I really value your insights…

I don't know why though... My friends who like Range Rovers keep on going back for the same punishment every 3-years for a lease on another Range Rover. They must still like the product overall and at the same time be gluttons for punishment! Toyota Tundra looks like a fine machine in the pictures! Big machine! I'm loathe to admit that I drive a Tesla Model 3. I find the car to be the most unattractive car I've ever owned - but despite its duck-like front end, the car is dependable, very noisy (reminds me of a Porsche sports car back in the day when they were still less insulated), very bad brakes, somewhat good at acceleration, fairly good handling, and very good safety. Very much a mixed bag. Well engineered too, it has a double-wishbone suspension, something uncommon at the low-price-point. They've made significant improvements in the new Tesla Model 3 (that came out in 2024).
A Land Cruiser is definitely a luxury product in the concrete jungle - it is excessive, unnecessary, and impractical. Impracticality that symbolizes excess, is a significant byproduct of luxury. But, a Land Cruiser, like the ones that served me in Africa driving on the bumpiest surfaces I've ever been driven across, equipped with two spare tires each, and 200 liter fuel tanks - those were necessities. Super pragmatic. Not a luxury at all. Is air conditioning a luxury in 50-degree summers in Middle East? I simply could not have gotten from Point A to Point B without the Land Cruisers. Just amazing machines - I am in awe of them. Just like an Omega Moonwatch is an overbuilt unnecessary luxury watch here on Earth, but a practical necessity in outer space.
The word "luxury" has a lot of meanings and it differs from one person to another. I always thought "Mercedes" was a very normal car. Its slab-like surfaces, squared-off-everything design, they didn't seem "luxurious" to me. But in USA markets, where the roads are easy, straight, and low-speed limits, they're considered over-engineered imported luxury cars. But in Europe, where they drive faster, more aggressively, and have roads that are less straight, a Mercedes is only considered a "premium" car to many Europeans. Also, there's more nuance, Mercedes in Europe have less expensive models that are Front wheel drive (which they brought over about a decade ago to USA). Personally, I agree with the Europeans when thinking critically (I find them to be adequate and nothing superfluous), but I grew up in USA, so I have also been also programmed to the USA perspective and probably adhere to the USA perspective when I think casually.
Is a Montblanc fountain pen really a luxury object? What makes it a luxury object? Gold nibs are pretty standard for fountain pens - gold is chosen for its anti-corrosion properties in ink, and the vast majority of fountain pen brands use gold nibs for this anti-corrosion property. Nothing else is special about the Montblanc pen otherwise - black plastic body. It just had a famous name, it's known for reliability, high quality, and was made famous because famous politicians used them. I would argue, the normal Montblanc pen is not a luxury item. It serves a very basic purpose, and it does it very adequately.. But today, thanks to marketing, positioning, fairly high prices, etc. - and the fact that we don't need to use fountain pens anymore, this is now perceived to be a luxury item.
What makes a car a luxury car? To the average person, any car that is expensive, can be Front-wheel drive or Rear-wheel drive (average person won't make the distinction), has a leather interior, likely has a moonroof, and is above a certain price point. But, to an expert car engineer who has designed luxury cars, he will say there are much more requirements that are very big and important to engineers and car companies, but are not always fully understood by the buying public. What a double wishbone suspension does seems to confound Porsche 911 and Boxster/Cayman/718 owners (the vast majority who buy a Porsche 2-door sports car buy them for the image they portray and the reputation of the brand and not necessarily because they have a good understanding of the product's capabilities).
Omega is definitely capable of haute horlogerie! They even make a Tourbillon!
Can definitely go down a big rabbit hole here. Haute Horlogerie is very well defined. But "luxury" seems to mean different things to different people.

Reasoning does not align with passion.