ThomasM
[PuristS]
14331
LOL! I understood your original idea, Patrick. I still feel the same way.
Hi, Patrick,
My original point was that silicium, silicon, ceramic bearings, etc - if the original classically designed movement was well designed, well produced, the benefits of the high tech components are minimal, at best, and loses much of the "old school touch" of using naturally occuring materials, produceable with "hand tools"
But certainly ceramic bearings and silicium wheels can "cover up" lots of sloppy design or sloppy production.
I'm sure there are lots of "gear heads" (used with utmost respect and affection) who will argue with me to death about these points, but for me, I feel the same as I feel about machine finished finishing on movements vs hand finishing a la Dufour and Voutilainen, even if there are no functional improvements with the hand finishing.
So to be clear, no, I would have no interest in a modern day 2120/2121 with ceramic bearings or silicium wheels.
Of course, Mr. Karl Friederich Scheufele had a very witty reply to my point when I brought it up to him in a recent conversation...
Cheers,
TM
Royal Oak Jumbo
Can't resist to the pleasure to post here some quick pics of the Original Royal Oak, the one, the only one, which started the R.O Saga. A small package, with a box which you will easily store: If I was attracted by this Original Royal Oak, it is not only ...
Thank you...
...in my opinion, the best Royal Oak. The patina really does give it a wonderful look; reminds me of a old bronze statue whose dark finish is wearing off. it also gives a better idea of the details of the finishing, I'd never really noticed the circular g...
So basically, nice watch...
... not so nice movement ... lol.... Btw, didn't JLC sell movements to AP in the early century? I think that the 1st models had a genta movement... not sure though. I often dream of tailor made watch to my desires... Like a 44mm daytona or a 44mm Lange da...
Of course, some here will be more qualified than me to answer
But I understand that JLC sold movements to AP, not GG, for this watch... Therefore, GG designed the RO, and didn't make the movement, nor ...any movements, AFAIK. Sweete memories? Certainly, my friend... That's another reason why I jumped on it. Best, an...
As far as I remember...
...the movement was designed late '60s / early '70s by JLC under exclusive contract to Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin and Audemars Piguet. Each manufacture finished the basic ebauche delivered by JLC. It included some special features which made it o...
The AP cal 2121/2120 (VC 1120) nee JLC 920 is widely considered
One of the greatest movements ever designed and produced. Flat reliable torque, ultra thin, advanced engineering that actually worked in its rotor winding system, exotic design features like hanging mainspring barrel... The 920 movement was indeed funded ...
waow... ur an history or do u work for AP :) ??
thanks for lesson, very interesting. Regretting even more that i sold mine. Now, the worst part is that my father got one of the 1st Royal oak that he bought in the 70's... and hold on tied, he swifted the movement to a quartz!!! ... LOL... if that was al...
collecting AP specifically for...
over 30 years eventually forces a little bit of knowledge on the collector. "Father is always right" - even when he's not. Cheers, K TM
Thanks a lot, Thomas, for these precious informations.
And for the corrections too, about GG movement, and the j instead of the J. Best, my friend. Nicolas
How much of the provenance do you have on the piece, Nicolas?
I'd be curious to know how much of the history was "travelling" with the watch. The heavy handed case polishing (shoulders of the case, edges, transitions at the octagonal points, as Alec points out) would make me worry about the service history of the mo...
Well, the movement is runnig with great accuracy, Thomas
I will enjoy it a bit, and then , I will give it to AP to restore it... Maybe a new bezel, a nice polish, and a Movement Service with a new Bracelet. I will think about what I'll do on it. But, for the vmoment, I enjoy it. Best, and thanks for your input,...
That's great news.
Hi, Nicolas, Just be aware that the bracelet on early RO jumbos are NOT inter-changeable with later Jumbo's; nor are the links so do NOT lose any links you might have taken out! Enjoy it! Cheers, TM
I asked Yesterday to the AP Boutique, in Paris, Thomas
And yes, once again, you're right, Father... I will need to get a special one for this special piece... I'm waiting for the AP tel Call today, they will tell me all. Best, Nicolas
wow, if you can get a full bracelet for an original jumbo...
even from Le Brassus that would be a minor miracle. Even links are well nigh impossible ... believe me, I speak from experience... I'm looking forward to seeing the piece in person, be sure to hold on to it until at least we next meet. We might even be ab...
Thanks TM for very helpful info...
What is a "hanging mainspring barrel"? Other than the finshes and skeleton rotor, are there any variations/differences between the 2121 used in the original 1972/73 Royal Oaks and the ones used today in the 15202? Pat
Hanging barrel
Is a barrel that is not supported on both ends, so only supported by the barrel bridge and not by the main plate (so it is cantilevered from one end). Cheers, Al
What is the advantage...
Thanks a lot Al for the reply. What is the advantage of such arrangement? More compact (need less space) or easier removal of the mainspring barrel? Pat
More compact is a primary reason...
Hi, Pat, Been limited to PDA access, thanks to Al for giving a very good answer. The downside is that it is more difficult to service, requiring a special spacing tool to service properly. It is possible to service without the tool, but to do it right, th...
There have been variants - 2120; 2121 (without date; with date) and
variants with variable inertia balances and traditional screwed balances. Cheers, TM
Noted with thanks.
Seems that the variants on 2121 are not much significant over the last 30 years. Pretty much a 1973 movement for the current in production 15202.. Probably AP should improvise/update the already legendary (best automatic) movement with silicon escapement,...
no, no, no, no!
Those, to me, are not improvements! Sacrilege! Put that crap on new, unproven movements that haven't withstood the test of time; or to make right what wasn't right to begin with... I would not put fuel injection in a vintage Bugatti, or even a 1960's/1970...
ha, ha, ha, ha!
Guess I have pressed the wrong buttons. I agree with you vintage legendary historical pieces should not be meddled at all. I am not suggesting that we take a 1973 Royal Oak 2121 and replace the parts (if that could be done). To do that would kill the hist...
LOL! I understood your original idea, Patrick. I still feel the same way.
Hi, Patrick, My original point was that silicium, silicon, ceramic bearings, etc - if the original classically designed movement was well designed, well produced, the benefits of the high tech components are minimal, at best, and loses much of the "old sc...
Now I understand you perfectly...
at least a new 'original' 2121 still preserves the 'old shool way (and hand-tool-produceable-parts-tradition)' of making watches. Is it really true that the manufacturing of a 2121 in AP is still essentially the same as in the 70s? You mentioned somewhere...
new to AP
I would be grateful for any information which you might provide regarding a recent purchase. I have a penchant for TV shaped watches viz my Piaget from late 70s. I have just chanced upon an AP (TV screen shape) 18ct white gold, copper sunburst dial, cal 2...
A wonderful patina.
This "bronze" color is very nice and goes very well with the RO. You got a great watch Nico ! Fr.Xavier
Very fine first edition, Nicolas...
and thanks for the excellent images. You are right about the quality of the patina as well! Best regards, Tony C.
Nicolas, that patina is fantastic!
I was unaware that those dials could change so! Your photos and observations are interesting ones. I must confess I have been tempted from time to time but have not yielded to the temptation to acquire one. In a way, I think the numerous iterations of the...
Nice post Nicolas
I´ve always loved this watch... and if you add a vintage piece: what more can I desire?. the RO Jumbo is an amazing watch, a watch that it´s always in my head. Last week one friend would sell me his RO Jumbo with black dial.... I was really tempted, but.....
Bravo! Gets your adrenalin pumping...
I got one too from 1992 LE series...will be 20 years in 2012 Same mov't of course, same legend...definitely a keeper! Congrats!!!!
Any pic of yours, Rei ?
Would be interesting to see, in the same post, the original and the little sister... Thanks for your nice words, my friend. Nicolas
Hi Nicolas...the watch is in the vault now.
In the meantime, I will try to find the older scan. Thanks!
I always consider this as a Haute Horology piece....
Truely a classic and legendary sport watch. One that can be very elegant in evening too. Royal Oak rules!! Regards
Nice catch
Has all the edges on that Jumbo been polished off or it is just your photo?
Seems it is not the photo, Jester
I have it on my wrisrt while typing these lines, and the edges are polished. Thanks for the nice words, my friend. Best. Nicolas
Yes, the actual beveled surfaces around edges should all be polished
but I was wondering about all the sharp corners off the edges, if you see what I mean. It seems that they've beenpolished down a bit or really just the picture? The dial really got character!
Smaller Royal Oak
Hi Nicolas They also had some smaller versions in limited quantities. Can you tell me more about these smaller 'cousins'...
The cal. 2x25 (x=1, 2, or 3) powered RO's came later, and were produced in far greater
numbers than the 2121 powered jumbo's. Movement was based on JLC 889, a widely used "fine" movement. They were housed in 36mm cases, with center seconds, and were produced for quite a few years before being discontinued a few years back for the 15300 with...
