ThomasM
[PuristS]
14331
Thanks for your feedback, Ling. As I would expect from a lawyer, your points
are lucid and succinct.
I certainly can't speak for Mr. Merk (though I believe he will see all these comments) but based on what I know of "street level" conditions worldwide,
"1. The non-ROO/RO stocks at retailers here are not moving satisfactorily (at least in the eye of the retailers)."
the non-ROO / RO models are obviously not as "hot sellers" as the RO and ROOS - this is a recognized fact for many decades now.
Most brands would KILL to have even one model that is as iconic and commercially successful as, first, the RO, then its progeny, the ROOS. This very success is what, I think, has skewed all discussions about AP model lines - the higher the mountain, the smaller appears the hills.
But such powerful and extreme "positions" are difficult, if not impossible, to "adjust for" in conversation....
"2. Mr. Merk said: "There would be no secondary market if there would not be a strong primary market". I am not sure whether he would agree with me that: "There would be no strong primary market if there would not be secondary market"."
Yet another excellent point. I do strongly disagree with your play on the words in your counter, though - there is virtually no secondary market for Dufour; for Voutilainen. Yet the primary is indisputably very strong.
This subject is a very complex calculus, with many variables each with complicated relationships with the other variables - absolute market size, absolute production quantities, relativity between the two, image vs reality, image becoming reality, distortions like speculation, and how long those distortions take (if ever) to work their way through the market, etc etc etc
The Lamborghini Reventon is a perfect example - It was "sold out" immediately upon introduction.
90% of them have been "permanently on offer" ever since...
Consider all the "double and triple sealed" PP 5970, 5959, 5070, etc etc etc.
What is manipulation, what is speculative, what is "organic" and sustainable?
I recall even products as "common" as the Canon and Nikon "pro bodies" or, for a period of time, old Contax/Zeiss and Leica R lenses when it became known they can be adapted for manual use on Canon and Olympus digital mounts, being subject to price bubbles, speculation, flipping, and "strong secondary markets." Even now, where those "unnatural" secondary markets seem to have died down, the primary markets are still strong...
Interesting topic for its own thread, here on AP forum or on HoMe...
Cheers,
TM
Philippe Merk, CEO, Audemars Piguet, shares some special insights with PuristS
During these turbulent times, great companies see the opportunities rather than focusing on the crisis. Mr. Merk, CEO of Audemars Piguet, shares with PuristSPro AP fans his special insights. You came in to AP to assume the CEO position from outside the co...
Great reading. Thank you.
He hinted at the 40th anniversary of the RO -- can't wait to see what is in store. I am also looking forward to seeing the "first ever" AP diving watch, although I thought the Scuba with a WR of 300m was a diving watch...Nevertheless, I am sure it will be...
"hold your breath"...
get it? hold your breath...for a dive watch?!? More details soon, my friend, soon... TM
I'm turning blue already...
...I can't wait too long. All right, maybe a little longer. respo
oops...
Judging from all the interest in the new "Dive" watch, I think there has been a terrible misunderstanding. My "hold your breath" was a play on words on the Dive theme. Yes, that Dive model is the one introduced at SIHH in January. Please remember that SIH...
No problem.
In fact it comes as a relief that there is not ANOTHER watch for me to lust after...although, I had beeter go back and take another look at the Diver announced at SIHH...uh oh. Thanks, Thomas. respo
So this is the AP Offshore Diver that you were referring to?
Just to reconfirm with a visual. The Offshore Diver is basically the same as the Scuba but with different hands & date disc background is black instead of white. Cheers, Anthony...
yes.
I actually like the details of the Diver very much! Subtle but key differences... TM
Wonderful read, Thomas...
Very interesting and informative. I have loved AP's for many, many years. I distinctly remember seeing my first stainless Royal Oak at a jeweler in Paramus, NJ and being mesmerized by the simplicity and beauty of the design. I really enjoy reading about t...
Thank you, Jeff, all will be clear very very soon...
What's your favorite model? Which sees the most wrist time? TM
my favorite model is...
I have always held the Royal Oak line in the highest regards and own a Royal Oak chronograph in stainless. To me,, these models are the Heart and Soul of AP, all others are spin offs of these iconic watches. I also own a Edward Piguet chronograph in rose ...
From this non-AP owner's
POV, I'm not sure I buy his views on LEs and non-favoring of any one line... to me, there is a lot of emphasis on the ROO and LE ploys and I will add that from a sales POV, I guess one cannot blame them.
I'd love to read your further clarification on your POV, Arthur.
Hi, I know many/most of the knee jerk reactions towards Limited Edition ROOS, and some of them I have tried (mostly futilely) to explain that the LE's are to celebrate specific anniversaries, special events, etc (as Mr. Merk said) and that AP has tended t...
No disconnect Thomas.. Just expressing
some of my thoughts on your interview with the AP gentleman and not wanting to delve into it further as it is just my view which is probably only right for me . I also take the stand that others have theirs and I respect that. I personally don;t subscribe...
Sorry, I misunderstood your words.
Hi, Arthur, " I'm not sure I buy his views on LEs and non-favoring of any one line... " read to me like you were questioning the sincerity of Mr. Merk's words and their meaning, not that your opinion of the situation differed from his, as a matter of opin...
No worries Thomas
On the clarification, I rather not as some of my reasons for not being a ROO ro PAM fan have no horological grounding and are based on weird idiosyncracies which cannot be the norm. The horological reasons.. well... I'm still struggling with horological t...
I'm with Arthur on this...
I'm with Arthur on this. If ROO makes up more than 50% of the company's $ and if the LE's are raking in all that money, why bother to stop there? In as far as AP is concerned, I am an outsider but the impression I get is that AP is milking ROO for what it...
I personally am not that far from you guys in personal feelings, but...
um...what's the difference between the Survivor and Grand Prix and JPM and RBII... okay, these are seriously different models, even if with similar/same movements. Certainly far more different than various PP models with the same movement, or LUC, or VC, ...
Thanks for the very informative interview
I have followed AP over the years and own just one. Mine is the iconic RO E-series with silvered waffle dial in ss with bracelet and "AP butterfly" deployant. As a matter of fact, it is my daily wear watch, despite my original concerns of scratches and da...
Hey TM, I can explain it to you.
It's simple, really. People sell their grandmothers to get hold of a new LE Offshore in the hope of making a quick buck by flipping it. Then new LEs come out, sometimes with only small variations on the watch to which they have pinned their investment hop...
Amazing! What clarity! What insight!
ThePuristS (and PuristSPro) has always been very much against that sort of mentality - "please keep the door open long enough for me to get in, then slam it shut to anyone else behind me." :-( Cheers, TM
Sneak peek ?
Thanks Mr Merk and Dr Mao for the insights and sneak peeks. Although I knew such an interview was coming, I didn't realise the amount of information in it, if one teases out the material! The original 'rotating bezel indicator' watch was a Limited Edition...
Can't wait to see how this new Diving Watch will look like!
Thanks for the interview Thomas! (I have a big grin on my face when looking at my wrist these days ) Cheers, Anthony This message has been edited by AnthonyTsai on 2010-05-12 20:52:28
I've heard...
the reason for that big grin on your face is pretty... BADA$$! Diver - sorry, see my comments to Respo above. TM
Thank you for the rare insight!
There were some very interesting and difficult questions asked. Many of the questions are some of the boldest questions that could be asked that are in the back of the minds of many PuristS who are concerned about the purity and history of this highly rev...
Great interview
And very interesting reading about his thoughts on how AP weathered the storm during the financial crisis. And very cool sneak peak at the AP Diving watch. Can't wait to hear more details. Thanks TM. Regards, ED-209
AP actually did quite well, vis a vis the rest of the industry.
The US market for AP wasn't hit too bad for too long, and is well recovered year on year (kudos, AP NA!) There are some markets that continue to lag, but they were not "top markets" even before the crisis. So all in all, AP weathered the storm pretty well...
Thanks TM and Mr. Merk.
Cannot wait to see the 40th anniversary RO. Hope it is a Jumbo LE. JerryW
Great to read some comments from Mr. Merk about the future of AP!
Two things in the article that really got my blood pumping: - a new AP diver; - celebrating the 40th anniversary of the Royal Oak! How EXCITING! Thanks for the wonderful post, TM! I enjoyed reading your interview very much! Cheers, Daos
Thanks for the exclusives and interview Dr. Mao
Will AP make a truly special 40th anniversary Royal Oak or just engrave the caseback or dial to commemorate the occasion. Thank you Dr. Mao for the interview of Mr. Merk.
I suspect...
the 40th Anniversary Royal Oak will be quite a bit more than that... Thanks for your participation, BClair57! TM
Thank you....
for posting...... interesting about the 40th anniversary...... but, as a comment, his response on the limited editions is not entirely convincing.... (however, AP is a company and wants to profit... there is nothing wrong with that....) cheers
thank you, Pink Panther. May I ask...
what sort of comments on limited editions would be "entirely convincing?" Completely seriously, without any irony or sarcasm, I am sincerely interested in the unspoken and underlying thoughts on the whole LE subject. Obviously it is a topic resting on som...
Happy to do so.....
although, I would like to clarify that my views are entirely subjective..... Limited editions, in my view, should be exactly that.... a watch that is a limited number and is not manufactured again..... Also a limited edition should be really much lower, i...
Thanks, Pink Panther...
I really appreciate the effort to try to explicate the assumptions to someone who may not agree, but may not disagree either! but who is really interested in understanding the reasons behind. The funny thing is, I have no problem with people simply saying...
Thanks a lot, Thomas.
Just want to send a few messages to Mr. Merk. 1. The non-ROO/RO stocks at retailers here are not moving satisfactorily (at least in the eye of the retailers). 2. Mr. Merk said: "There would be no secondary market if there would not be a strong primary mar...
Thanks for your feedback, Ling. As I would expect from a lawyer, your points
are lucid and succinct. I certainly can't speak for Mr. Merk (though I believe he will see all these comments) but based on what I know of "street level" conditions worldwide, "1. The non-ROO/RO stocks at retailers here are not moving satisfactorily (at l...
Your....
last point is quite interesting and as you suggest a great new thread.... I would suggest, as it is your idea, to start it in HoMe.... It would generate a great conversation.. cheers
I'll take you up on that, but...
most likely will have to wait till next week. Thanks, TM
Thomas, thanks for your detailed reply.
I agree and disagree to some of your points. 1. ROO/RO is certainly the iconic model for AP. Based on the past experience, AP pay too much attention in "promoting" ROO/RO, so do all the watch forums, with no exception. At times, I wonder whether the brand...
I don't think we are in disagreement, Ling, only "phase shifted" in our points.
Limited time right now, but "1. ROO/RO is certainly the iconic model for AP. Based on the past experience, AP pay too much attention in "promoting" ROO/RO, so do all the watch forums, with no exception. At times, I wonder whether the brand has seriously t...
Thank you, Nacho.
I agree, this is a problem "all brands wish they had." But when they have it, it is a problem nonetheless! I would parse the subject into two narrower categories, though - 1. secondary markets as limited to so called "NIB" (new in box) being sold, at, bel...
Interesting reading, Thomas
Well, I'm a bit deceived, as I hoped there was something revealed about a re introduction of the Starwheel... Do you have a scoop to share with us, Thomas? Best, Nicolas
Thomas
Any Dong in this army of dings? Best, Nicolas This message has been edited by amanico on 2010-05-13 20:03:46
Hey, did I read into this correctly?
AP Starwheel? Sometime in the near future? Yipeeee!!!! Regards, ED-209
Very insightful questions with very open answers by Mr. Merk,
making this a top notch interview. Thanks to you Dr. M and hats off to Mr. Merk for having the passion to share his watch with fellow collectors while traveling, there must be more stories in those encounters--hope to hear them at a dinner sometime ;0). B...
Thanks for sharing, Thomas...
It is very interesting and informative. Thanks to Mr. Merk too. Like others, I wonder what would the 40th anniversary of the RO be like. Goh
Thanks to Mr Merk and to TM for this excellent and revealing interview
...and thanks to all forumners for the fascinating debates generated from it. I personally was intrigued by AP's new corporate line (well, it's new to me - I hadn't heard it before): Tradition, Excellence, Audacity. This is a great summation of AP's speci...
Interesting interview. You asked some good question and...
deserve credit for not shying away from also asking the more difficult ones. Good job. On the issue of your questions a.,b. and c. I don't think he really answered your question c. As I read it, you were asking a question about the "free rein" speculators...
Well done, Thomas.
That was a very interesting interview. I'm looking forward to seeing what AP has in store for us this summer.