Horological Meandering

Hi, "Context is everything. Everything is context." Is there a difference between these two statements? 1. "The Patex Pigueron Submersible Travel Timer Big Date is one of the biggest rip offs in the watch industry." 2. "The Patex Pigueron Submersible Trav... 

They allow an individual to express his/her honest opinion freely and without fear by also covering his/her a-- at the same time. They allow this and also don't necessarily force the opinion on to others to adopt them as well. In a sense, putting it out t... 

Hi, Ping, I thought about leaving this for another headscratcher, but I'm not sure there's enough on the topic to discuss to be the start of another thread. "Context is everything; Everything is context." I am reminded of the "2010 is the start of a new d... 

Cure laziness and pigheadedness all at once! ----------------------------- Sincerely and IMHO, SteveH

so we won't be reinstating signatures because it opens up Pandora's box for the moderating team. Best, Anthony

please bear with me, but I do appreciate all responses and comments, thoughts - that's what "open" discussions are for! Thanks! TM

Hello Thomas, Whereas I have just realized from looking at previous posts, I rarely use opening salutations here on PPro, I am a fan, believer and user of such "pleasantries". I gather that my opening salutations are missed here because of my tendancy to ... 

. . . good call, Nikolaj . . .

I appreciate your comments, and I agree that the point can be taken overboard too. I'll see what I can do about that Patex Pigueron. It seems it does have its fans... ;-) All the best, TM

i always try, and hope i succeed, in being polite whenever i have a typed conversation, if you can call it a conversation i may not start with, Dear Mr Mao, but i always end with 'best, Graham' or similar. politeness costs nothing and people should take t... 

it's great when one gets to know someone; it definitely helps with context. Knowing that you are an ex-copper (since you have mentioned this publically before, I assume it is okay to share publically) brings to mind an issue that comes up frequently in re... 

Dear Fellow PuristS, One of the things that I admire about this site and its members is that in general I think there is a very high level of civility, and politeness not found with same consistency elsewhere. IMHO. IMHO that has a lot to do with the tone... 

I always respect someone who tries to live up to their own standards, which you certainly seem to. Your "guidelines" for conduct are right on, imho. Man, that Patex Pigueron seems to be reallly popular! I just might have to get one! TM

…amongst our number who takes the view that it is actually almost something of an egotistical presumption to express the views of a neophyte to an audience of cogniscenti , and for that reason eschews the personal pronoun (and derivations thereof) in post... 

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others look forward to your comments on a given subject, or miss you when you don't post. I always look forward to your words, on whatever subject. You mentioned the use of acronyms - interestingly, I didn't intend this thread to address that, but as I me... 

… to flattery and back to politesse , all in the one post! Thank you also for the allusion to one of Hollywood’s more persuasive advocates: [The great Mr James Stewart in 'Anatomy of a Murder" - pic from independentcritics dot com] Wholly undeserved, of c...  

somewhere where the winged chariot of other posts don't constantly threaten to push it to the internet oblivion of "page 2"... " This, as you say, TM, is shorthand for specialists; signals to other specialists and insiders which, you imagine, can be (mis)... 

Is that it's lazy and clumsy. Yes, I use it sometimes. Sometimes I am lazy and clumsy. It allows a writer to make a strident statement e.g."Xxxxxx Xxxxxx is the biggest cheat in F1" and then retreat behind the initialism "IMHO" as though that softens the ... 

Hi, BDLJ (is this an acronym, pseudonym, "handle" or ...? and what does it say about me to use it slavishly when I know your real name? Or am I respecting your implied desire to maintain a separate identity on the net vs "real life?" ) "It allows a writer... 

Hi Thomas, I agree with your general comments about the use of salutations and qualifiers. I have commented on this before, but I have noted on the various PuristS channels, as well as other internet sites, that the use of qualifiers such as IMVHO, YMMV, ... 

... have you seen the bottom of your posts today??? ;-) Cheers, pplater.

Yes I noticed the links but was too terrified to press on anything. Hopefully we will get an explanation from the ‘techs’, or being a citizen of the 21 st century am I supposed to know what “Delicious”, “Digg”, “Technorati”, “Reddit”, “Stumbleupon”, “Prop...  

We are just late adopters to the new stuff. You may have noticed everyone from the New York Times to the Washington Post have had +Share on their sites for well over a year. You are right we need to jump in to the 21st.... :)...  

There are more than 30 such shared links we just took a few of the top one. Enjoy. Bill...  

....and he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish and he eats always'. For the Luddites amongst us, Bill, tell us how and when we should be using these new 'thingies'. Cheers, pplater.

The promise is that it will attract like minded reader due to the way they get ranked. If users are interested it climbs. Obviously our universe is small so we will attract users with high interest. Other things like twitter I still don't quite know how p... 

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"Never in the history of humankind has so much misinformation been owed by so many to so few, so quickly." ;-)

Like, if I said "Brand ABC's watches are ugly", it sounds pretty harsh. That's how I read it. If I were to say 'Brand ABC's watches are ugly IMO", it sounds harsh but more in a subdued tone of voice. I like adding "IMO" sometimes to my written opinions be... 

Thanks! TM

If I say "Brand X watches are junk," Brand X may be in a position to sue me and win if it can show that I made a false statement about its watches. If I say "In my opinion Brand X watches are junk," Brand X should not be in a position to sue me and win be... 

for myself only, I really try to not be so cynical. Afterall, down that path are doctors who keep patients sick to continue their revenue stream; mechanics that don't fix your car properly (but undetectably) so they can keep billing you for work; and ulti... 

Pleasantries do help to maintain decency in civilized comminucation but they do not in any way enhance the truthfulness of an opinion. In general, an opinion which is based on true fact/s is a correct opinion. Otherwise, it is an incorrect / wrong / taint... 

important secondary effects of communications...artifacts of the communication process itself, irregardless of the "truth" factor of the underlying points. Like my comments about the demeanor of LEO's (Law Enforcement Officers) and other positions of auth... 

Thomas, Is it not possible to be civil, to separate fact from opinion, and to engage in polite discourse without following precisely the conventions of the handwritten letter with respect to greetings and salutations and without adopting acronyms? I shoul... 

Hi, Park, "I personally hate slavish devotion to, and dogma about, anything." "I hate slavish devotion to, and dogma about, anything." "Slavish devotion to, and dogma about, anything is bad/stupid/idiotic/dangerous." I agree that "tone" and intention are ... 

great headscratcher as usual but I beg to differ on one point and I must say it as polite as I can The Evolutionary biology is a FACT. and this one is without MHO or WMHO On politeness and salutations I tend to agree being polite will not hurt you being i... 

I know a few Creationists who beg to differ, but that's another thread, on another forum...

with just one little twist Creationism is not a science Evo. Bio. is Sincerely Damian This message has been edited by Ares501 on 2010-02-09 05:34:12

. . . so yes, I feel qualifiers are both necessary and good form . . . cordially, Art

And from some of the other posts, it seems more than a few agree. Cheers, TM

I think the general question raised is not so much the proper use of qualifiers (IMHO, IIRC, etc) but rather communicating clearly, concisely, and most importantly, using the proper tone. What is the proper tone? Persuasive when trying to convince, open w... 

I agree. Cheers, TM

Speaking as a speech teacher, publisher and professional editor, only. IMHO, as well. Not as a physician. Whether it be vaccinations vs autism or evolution vs creationism or even column wheel vs lever we ought to temper our self-expression to allow for th...  

Mike, "we ought to temper our self-expression to allow for the possibility that we might be wrong." Whoa, what a concept! I could not possibly agree more. Thanks, TM

That was neither opinion nor fact. -- it was a lie! I just couldn't resist! Thomas, some folks a rude, some folks simply don't communicate well, and others are indifferent. Me, I'm old school, and like you, I prefer good manners. I also understand and acc... 

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Ya almost got me, but in our case, I had the benefit and pleasure of knowing you in person. Thanks for your comments! TM

Hi Thomas, There have been a lot of interesting points and fascinating sidebars raised in this thread. I generally prefer to contextualize my statements as much as it's practical to do so and I find value in others doing so as well. At work in particular,... 

Hi, John, The credibility of the other party - I've frequently seen parties in a negotiation where someone tries to negotiate by starting with the absurd. "How much would you like to pay?" (for a $15,000 watch) "$1000" End of discussion, the first offer i... 

...in a traditional format with salutation and closing, but I always try to be cordial and express when something is my opinion, as opposed to stating it as fact. I don't know if I always succeed in my endeavors, but following the golden rule to do unto o... 

by using those "nice" words like dear, hi etc become "plain" to the receiver, once in a while use it I would think people will feel some "spice" as a humble self I do not often use all this in sms and email in normal daily communication to those we have k... 

Skip to the bottom "FINAL NOTE" area if you want to avoid reading all of my opinions and skip to the main idea... Saying "IMHO" and "I think" is almost always unnecessary and redundant. I agree with you that people do it for reasons of being polite. Howev... 

P.S. Another one of my pet peeves; I don't like it when people ask their restaurant server "Can I have the fish?" I always prefer to say, "I'll have the fish" or "I would like..." or "I'll take the fish." P.P.S. I do know I sound like I have Aspergers or ... 

Dear Dr ThomasM What a great topic to bring up here on the forum I would have commented earlier, but actually thought that there were already so many great comments from so many clever PP members that I almost stayed away. Too much just to add a small mic... 

First of all, my apologies for not noticing this post earlier. I have a habit of jumping in and out of HM in a non-systematic way and therefore some posts catch my attention sooner, some later, and some not at all. Reason for the apology is the strong sus... 

Hi, Jos, 1. "The Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore is one of the biggest rip offs in the watch industry." 2. "The Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore is a strong candidate for biggest rip off in the watch industry." Indeed there is a difference in those t... 

... and I wonder what you base it on. The way I value others' opinions is based on their perceived authority in the matter. Since I acknowledge you as an authority on haute horology, I'd say I value your opinions higher than mine. Mind you, valuing your o... 

Hi, Jos, If I disagree with someone else's opinion, and my opinion is a negative one, I tend to keep my negative opinion to myself, unless I am offended by the egregiousness of the "offense." Obviously you feel that strongly about the Offshore, and all th... 

... remember, it was you who rekindled this discussion not me. Couple of small things that might sound like nitpicking but since you were picking apart my words with gusto, I feel the need to address them. Firstly, "I can't believe you wrote that" didn't ... 

Dear Jos, ALL CAPS is shouting by general internet convention. For me, it is reiterating a point that is obviously bouncing off closed ears in our case (mixing metaphors.) I find it as offensive to pretend to disingenuously effete euphemisms (sh!t instead...