gcTIME
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Paypal
I am speaking from personal experience on multiple instances as a reputable seller that PayPal is problematic. When you say the risk shared by buyers is a lot significant than that by the seller, it would appear that you may have overlooked instances where the buyer files a malicious complaint to PayPal after having received the watch in good order. This would prompt paypal to impose extremely tedious and unreasonable measures on the seller. In these cases, the risk assumed by the seller is just as great if not greater. Again, I do not see why method of payment accepted by a seller necessarily reflects his integrity and vice versa.
A cautionary tale about Collectors Market . . .
. . . and scammers. It has come to my attention that a member of our community has likely been conned. The seller was able to convincingly demonstrate possession of the watch, yet has not delivered to nor communicated with the buyer for over a week. Pleas...
Bottom line: if the seller isn't an established member of our community . . .
. . . then insist on bona fides from someone who is. And stick to Paypal, paying with a credit card. There are legitimate reasons for a seller to prefer a wire transfer, but a legit seller should be open to Paypal conditionally. Art
Point taken
But PayPal in many cases really do not work well for sellers esp on international transactions. I, for one, do not accept PayPal payment due to extremely poor experience with them. At the end of the day I think type of payment accepted or refused does not...
Yes . . .
. . . and often, we're able to ferret them out before they can do harm. But, unfortunately, not always. Art
Unsure if it was listed repeatedly . . .
. . . but the seller had zero presence on the discussion forums, couldn't provide a community reference, and insisted on a wire transfer. Art
Bernie holds the record in terms of dollar losses . . .
. . . eclipsing the guy who sank Barings (can't recall his name), Boesky, Milken, and Keating. In a class by himself, to the best of my knowledge.
Enron was a corporation, with several ne'er-do-wells at the helm . . .
. . . if memory serves correct. Ken Lay wouldn't have been able to pull off the subterfuge on his own . . . he had many minions. To the best of my knowledge, Bernie is in a class by himself, at least in recent times. Krueger might be the all-time schnook ...
Forgot about the Swedish Match King, . . .
. . . Ivar Krueger, whose frauds in the early decades of the last century were as spectacular as Bernie's.
I really miss the old reference system here on the board.
Dear Art We used to have a very good reference system here. One would be able to see who served as a reference for other members, when we clicked on “show profile”. That has somehow disappeared - I really wish that it could come back. This way, if you had...
I'm passing your suggestion on . . .
. . . to The Powers That Be, Christian. Mostly well here, hope the same holds for you, too. Warmest, Art
Thank you so much, Art :-)
So glad to hear you’re well. Mostly well here also, apart from “a few stones in the shoes”.
Thanks for the heads-up Art, and for your precious work on behalf of everyone's safety in this community. Since this specific scammer pops up at an easy search...
...it is indeed worth noting that, unlike many of his "colleagues", this one even passed the initial "post your watch at this specific time" test. Yours is a valuable reminder to *always* be extra cautious when buying second hand from strangers --- and to...
That's precisely why I'm so distressed, Fab . . .
. . . usually, these lowlifes can be sorted out with photo requests. Not this time . . . he passed muster with multiple images both publicly here and privately with the buyer. To all: if the seller's not recognizable from the discussion forums, insist on ...
As a seller I wouldn't accept PayPal for an expensive watch.
They are notorious for chargebacks and ALWAYS siding with the buyer in disputes. Need an escrow service.
And if the buyer agreed to absorb all the fees? . . .
. . . frankly, it's the buyer in a transaction that's assuming the lion's share of risk. I understand there's potential for a finicky buyer to leverage Paypal to his advantage over a contentious deal. But is the risk accepted by buyers forgoing the protec...
I’m against PayPal if buyer also not trusted
But if buyer also has good rep then it’s ok I think now the best practice is what Chrono24 is doing with secure checkout I think we should do the same here where the transaction goes through Puristspro and held until both parties have no complaints Same a...
Food for thought, Mo. That would imply . . .
. . . responsibility for confirming a watch was genuine, which would consume time as well as expense. Best, Art
True but they do charge from seller some percentage
This could also benefit the forum to generate revenue streams to help the platform
Paypal
I am speaking from personal experience on multiple instances as a reputable seller that PayPal is problematic. When you say the risk shared by buyers is a lot significant than that by the seller, it would appear that you may have overlooked instances wher...
Perhaps, but are the incidences of unsavory buyers comparable . . .
. . . to those of fraudulent sellers? I rather doubt it. Frankly, if I were buying from someone I didn't know personally, or who wasn't vouched for by someone I knew, Paypal would be the only method of payment I'd consider. Cordially, Art
Thank you for this post and all the work you do to prevent this.
very much apprectated! GEO
More than ever the golden rule is key : buy the seller !
Of course we are all tempted to buy at the best price but even more important is to get the right piece at the agreed condition. No one including myself of course can say he never made a mistake but for buying a watch, there are indeed few golden rules th...
Sorry one slipped through...
Generally the Purists is one of the safest places to trade watches thanks to the hard work and vigilance of our steadfast Moderators. S
Another angle for verification
You can ask for an address linked to the seller then look it up on Google and also Google maps and use your own judgement to see (1) if he has connection to the address, and (2) if the address looks like the kind of place where the seller of a high-end wa...
You've mentioned this test before, Mike . . .
. . . and thanks for repeating it in this thread. Art
Considering the risks involved, monitoring CM . . .
. . . should be a full-time job for someone. I'm just a part-time volunteer, Salman. I've uncovered scores of scammers, but my efforts aren't nearly enough to catch them all. Art
If you see a poster on CM you suspect . . .
. . . please let me know. And that goes for every established member of our community - your eyes and ears can be invaluable. Gratefully, Art
I was conned in 2010 on a Panerai on this august site
paid usd13k for a watch that didn't arrived. Has a few references, one with a few hundred post counts. God help us all. Best, Horo
There's been another recent individual scammed . . .
. . . who wasn't a participating member of our community. And for considerably more than your experience, Horo. It pains me every time I hear such stories.
I posted my Dato last year and....
Was contacted by an Italian “investment advisor” based in Milan. He wanted me to travel to Milan to deliver the watch and conclude the deal in a cash transaction. The issue for his “client” was that he can’t travel with that sort of cash, when I suggested...
Same exact thing happened with me I thought it was straight out money laundry as they didn’t seem to object to the prices I gave them
Of course I didn’t even consider it for one bit but found it to be very interesting
For one moment I thought Madoff in the house!
Mann for one moment, I though Madoff is out and building his pyramid again in this forum! In age of internet or IOT, beware. In fact, be safe or be saved.