Jos.
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The answer methinks is, as always, in the execution...
... Especially in high horology, where execution is paramount.
The way I see it, integrated and modular are just different design strategies, nothing more, nothing less. Whether one is to be preferred over th'other for me completely depends on the outcome and little else.
For instance, the modular strategy in the AP ROO has led to a date ring that's been buried too deeply in the movement. The result is you can hardly read the date. Not good. But other modular designs show that it doesn't need to be that way.
Same for the chrono pushers not being aligned with the crown. Again, it's a design flaw that can be traced back to the kind of problems you encounter when starting with a non-chronograph movement and trying to stick a chrono module on top of it. But again, others have shown by now that you can avoid this outcome with a modular chrono as well.
To me it's not a coincidence that the topic keeps popping up in the AP forums of all places. The AP ROO is a perfect example of a modular design strategy gone horribly wrong. Apart from giving modular designs a bad name, the AP ROO with its flawed movement design in a sporty looking case for prices ranging into the high quintuple digits is a strong candidate for biggest ripoff in all horology.
Rgds,
Jos.
weekend Headscratcher - why does the topic of integrated vs modular chronographs seem to
polarize people so much? The topic has come up yet again (it is a perennial issue) in regards to the AP Royal Oak Offshore, and I raised this question on the AP forum specifically for that reason. click here for the original post on the AP forum. But as a...
LOL having fanned this particular fire myself a few times over the years. . .
. . . I'm going for option number three . Jack
aw, Jack, don't become a shrinking violet now, after all these years!
Seriously, most of the time, I tend to agree with you. Especially when positions are presented as though they are the one and only position possible for any intelligent and sensible person. uh, huh. :-( Thanks for commenting. TM
LOL well I guess I was being a wee bit flippant. . .
. . . and there are some serious replies to your query here that make me want to be a little more serious. I personally don't think being absolutist on the issue makes much sense; it's really about the whole package, I think. If the watch as a whole is ap...
Some points
Personally, I find the integrated chronograph movement nicer to look at, you can follow the action (as for the repeaters you pictured). As the AP RO(O) chronographs have alsmost always a solid back this doesn't play. A second point is that the pushers and...
Interestingly...
Hi, Dirk, Thanks for your comments. Ironically, the IWC, being a modular design, allows the striking works to be visible on the dial side, if one were to use a clear dial or cut outs; some consider this an advantage. In general, modular designs do require...
Your two examples illustrate one advantage ...
...of integrated movements. Both have display backs, but the IWC shows no sign of being a repeater apart from the operating slide. The other one beautifully displays some of the essential parts of the chiming mechanism. Personally, integrated complication...
Very ironic twist on "conventional wisdom" - one of your comments is exactly why
I am always interested in reading thoughts on a subject, no matter how many times the basic question has been revisited. ""Personally, integrated complications give me the impression of a compromise. Money has been saved by not designing a new or adapted ...
Yes...
..in fact I misstated (miswrote?). I always feel that modular movements are a compromise. Sorry, sometimes I can proof for spelling and grammar (to the best of my ability) but don't seem able to check that I am actually writing what I mean.
The answer methinks is, as always, in the execution...
... Especially in high horology, where execution is paramount. The way I see it, integrated and modular are just different design strategies, nothing more, nothing less. Whether one is to be preferred over th'other for me completely depends on the outcome...
You know, Jos, statements like your last...
"with its flawed movement design in a sporty looking case for prices ranging into the high quintuple digits is a strong candidate for biggest ripoff in all horology." when so many SUBJECTIVE aspects are stated as indisputable fact, are what more often tha...
Wow! Thomas, these are strong feelings...
... and if I stepped right into them, my apologies. I always like to opinionate a bit, it's the best way to stimulate a discussion That said, I do agree with you on the achievement that Cal. 2126/2840 represented 30 years ago. Or even 20 years ago, for th...
? Jos, I always find it amusing...
That though my words are merely in response to very strong words from you, that I am the one being pointed out as expressing "very strong feelings." Just to be clear, My comments were primarily in response to your rather strong words, not the basic ideas ...
Elegance of implementation and expandiblity
I was hoping to find exact part counts for this, but it seems that the yearbooks don't quite have the numbers I need. That in mind, we'll compare jewel counts instead. It appears that both AP and ETA use about 16 jewels in a chronograph module implementat...
I'm loosing it...
I had a second concept, expandability, and I forgot to mention it... I've never seen a modular chronograph with an additional complication, like a split-second. Starting with an integrated chrono seems like a much more robust solution if you wish to expan...
An example of this probably would be...
... the Jaquet movement used by Graham in the Foudroyante and Lightning models; by GP in the Scuderia Ferrari; and later also by Panerai in the PAM246. If I'm not mistaken all of these watches share versions of the same movement, based on a V7750 to which...
But that started as a Chronograph
the 7750 is a chrono movement, which was heavily modified. I was trying to think of a chronograph module that could accept a rattapante module/extension A
New attempt, Aaron...
... you're right, my bad. I overlooked the modular chrono part of your question. Another interesting candidate is the JLC Duometer in its various guises. Again I'm not sure here, especially since we all know the Duometer started its production life as a c...
New attempt, Aaron...
... you're right, my bad. I overlooked the modular chrono part of your question. Another interesting candidate is the JLC Duometer in its various guises. Again I'm not sure here, especially since we all know the Duometer started its production life as a c...
Im not sure where the Duometre fits....
It is clearly a modular design, but the modules seem more integrated into the movement, rather than simply being added to an existing movement and can only be used with the Duometre base. I think I'm not really going to think of them as modules, more like...
My thoughts on the modular/integral aspects of the Duometre...
ap.watchprosite.com Would welcome any thoughts! Bottom line is that I see it as two separate integral elements connected by an extremely simple interface... Best, Gary G
My answer depends on my mood …
Personally I have two reactions to the modular versus integrated issue. One is a practical engineering response and the other is an emotional one. [I could perhaps add a third: movement architecture, as this can have both engineering and aesthetic consequ...
For anyone with an interest in the meta topic...
My posts from the AP forum... http://ap.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-3/pi-3627566/ti-582776/s--6/ http://ap.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-3/pi-3629766/ti-582776/s--8/ As always, all thoughts welcomed! Best, Gary G