KMII
[Montblanc Moderator]
51024
Yes and yes…
To the first question, with some exceptions the industry has been rather stagnant and investment poor for decades. The small size of the overall watch market makes it a tiny industry. And the short term approach of many players (in complete contrast to their marketing) worsens the situation.
There are exceptions, such as Rolex, which are pretty good in terms of mass manufacturing and productivity improvements. The Swatch Group has also seen invested heavily but not sure if they are reaping the same rewards (the industry is too closed off for an easy analysis). The last time when there was real competition was the 70s - it was actually the manufacturing prowess of the Japanese that terminally damaged many weaker Swiss brands much more than the quartz crisis. Where Hayek was great was at changing the game to one the Swiss could play more easily, I.e. change the watches to a Veblenian good, where efficiency was much less of a concern.
In terms of pricing, above ca. €2-3k or so it’s much more about what the market will bear and there’s a low correlation to the actual manufacturing costs.
As for other countries, gladly. Where Switzerland really has an advantage is that it possesses a great supplier base that other countries are hard put to replicate. That also means that many manufacturers from other countries need to make more themselves as there is less of a usable and competitive supplier base.
Are Some Swiss Timepiece Manufacturers Pricing Themselves Out Of The Market?
A bit preemptive in writing this, perhaps, yet we've been seeing pricing going up at a staggering rate. Those familiar with the constant de valuation of currencies know it is a major problem that is getting far worse with each passing debt interest-only p...
The short answer is Yes, to the Swiss ( some German brands are equally guilty ) for pricing themselves out of the market.
I might consider British and perhaps US brands, depending on the style and finishing. No insult intended to either country or brand. It’s an excellent question that you are posing.
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Yes and yes …
I have a soft spot for Swiss watches but, innovation and quality are not exclusively available in Switzerland. ...
You pose a very interesting question and make some good points.
To your first question are they pricing themselves out of the market, Not really as they heavily researched and to some extent know just what their customers and the market will bear and tolerate. I think it's important to remember and maybe even point ou...
Yes, and yes.
And I’ll raise another question for the learned members of our forum. Without hard data, rather solely based on anecdotal data ingrained in my mind from just being in this space as a buyer over the last two or more decades, it seems to be that Rolex have ...
Very interesting points.
Agree, Rolex pricing for SS seem rather sane while also showcasing real-world movement improvements in not just accuracy, but in longevity between service intervals. Rolex also decorates their movements... even in places never seen by the customer. For ot...
Alot of these watches
appear to be produced in small batches, so there doesn't seem to be a ton of inventory risk. Modern Swiss watches appear to be the preferred currency of corruption and money Laundering in much of the world, so the higher the price the better from those us...
Interesting points.
Guess diamonds have become worth less, so...... ADDED: Oh my, if Private Equity starts getting involved in horology as they're doing in the U.S. with real-estate... we could all be scr@wed.
Maybe some small alternative funds
That’s who funded the platforms ala 1916. But this market is far too small for a meaningful PE player. Hedge funds are providing the backstop bids for the auction houses so there is that. As for diamonds, I think the bid offer spread is inferior compared ...
Interesting point. In a couple cases regarding pre-owned watches on a certain internet watch sales platform, I had the eerie sensation that I was dealing with a money laundering operation.
Until your post I had never seen anyone mention money laundering in connection with watches.
I know someone who gave the mayor's wife a Rolex to get
planning approval in Sardinia(? I think it was). It's basically untraceable and while it's not totally liquid, it is preferred given how impossible it is to trace.
Yes and yes. I like the British matchmaking aesthetic and would love to see more artisanal watchmaking from Asia
Very happy with my Garrick. I would love to see more work like this out of the UK, right now there's a huge white space in the UK between micro brand like Fears and the super high end like RWS and Frodsham. ...
Yes and no
No because these are luxury goods. As long as customers will pay the price, brands will continue to charge exorbitant costs. Yes, because for someone like me, I don’t like to pay new prices. If you can be patient and wait a year or two, (sometimes less) m...
Well said, "As long as customers will pay the price, brands will continue to charge exorbitant costs" and i agree, especially in bubble financing.
...until they don't. Thankfully, the next financial bubble may once again be kind to horology. This past bubble was wonderful, with many newcomers and new artisans coming forward.
Double yes
If we look at Behrens, we see a Chinese brand that is trying to establish its own catalogue of attractive watches at reasonable prices. Of course, there are plenty of cheap imitations, but China is set to gain a lot of attention, from small independents t...
Yes and yes…
To the first question, with some exceptions the industry has been rather stagnant and investment poor for decades. The small size of the overall watch market makes it a tiny industry. And the short term approach of many players (in complete contrast to th...
Doesn't matter where something is made...
Just the end quality & value. I just moved our ring company to manufacture in Asia and out of the US. Quality is better.