Jay (Eire)
12293
You are most definitely the champion of redefining the holy trinity.
I’ve read your posts on this for several years, here and elsewhere. Not sure I’ve engaged much on them to be honest as to me it’s wholly irrelevant, not your posts but the marketing construct that is the holy trinity.
Patek, VC and AP are producing mostly overpriced junk. And by mostly I really do mean and think that; the vast majority of their annual output is ordinary at best and most definitely overpriced in my opinion.
The disconnect between what is offered (intrinsic value) and what the retail price is has widened so much in the last decade or so it’s really just a joke.
Marc had a post about Daytonas / Rolex and a special Lauretto / GP earlier; to tie that in here I would say I would choose Rolex over any of these three historical brands in terms of having a tighter spread between intrinsic and retail values. But like the other three Rolex too trades off its well curated and deeply penetrating brand marketing. Anyways, a side bar.
Back to your post. If you are going to make a case to reset the trinity then let’s please ignore Moser as a starter.
Unfortunately outside of that I’m not sure what to offer as constructive comment. I do like that you have chosen an innovative brand (but FP has a lot of innovation too, and there are other contenders) and a brand that offers the touch of the individual hand (but again, there are others that could be included).
Always good to hear others thoughts, and always good to have posts that bring engagement. So thank you for that on this miserable and cold February day.
Update: Modern Holy Trinity
Hi WPS, Since the 1960s/1970s are long gone, a new Trinity has been decided. In the future within your publication, posts, etc, please know that the Modern Holy Trinity is MB&F, H. Moser, and Rexhep Rexhepi . When referring to the Holy Trinity, it now ref...
Why I do not agree….
Independent or not doesn’t make a difference to me but a brand belonging to the holy trinity or whatever one wants to call it should at least make a few thousand watches per year Even closer to 10.000 and more So none of these 3 would be acceptable TO ME....
Good points, yet we must remember that *mass production* does not make for exclusivity.
Being part of the Holy Trinity is an honor, and we can agree that true handmade high crafts should not be mass-produced by the tens of thousands. The Modern Holy Trinity seeks to be the very, very best, and indeed rare as it was in the 1960s. You make a g...
No Carrots? Blasphemy!
"diced onions, carrots, and celery" are the classic mirepoix combo (but since I am very troubled by onions, I can't even be in the same room with this picture!) ...
Indeed that is the classic mirepoix
But what I'm talking about is the Holy Trinity of Cajun cooking!
Can't say I'd include Moser.
Generally, the finishing just isn't there. MB&F ans RR also seem too small to put there; else you'd have to consider them in contention with Greubel Forsey, Roger Smith, Kari Voutilainen, Romain Gauthier, David Candaux, and so on. Litigating that kind...
I think I would suggest
Greubel Forsey, Romain Gauthier, and Ferdinand Berthoud/Moritz Grossmann. Honourable mentions: De Bethune, Ch. Frodsham, Atelier de Chronomètrie, Laurent Ferrier. Of course, these are the ultra-high quality, low output brands. If it is just makers, maybe ...
"Holy trinity" is just an historical term for those three brands
It's like the "Ivy League" of colleges. It doesn't mean MIT or Duke or whatever is second rate, just that these are particularly old, elite, and often compared for reasons of pride and historical rivalries. The "holy trinity" of Swiss watches is just that...
In 2025 those school are no longer really.... you know.
But yes, old guys will hold on to old terms as that is what they are trained to believe. Old beliefs are hard to update once some are of a certain age group. The younger generation i speak to seem to have modern ideas. What is interesting is that some old...
The "younger generation" you speak to...
I'm 40 and sell watches to people in their 20s and 30s. Any younger than that, and they're buying Timex. There's still plenty of interest in old brands and especially Patek, AP, and Vacheron. If anything, I'd say there's more interest in Vacheron and Pate...
I disagree.
Your three choice are excellent watch but I dont believe in only three. What about Kari, FPJ, Gronefeld, FB, Urwerk, LF Which are equally or even more extraordinary . You can list even more.
There are so many top brands around and it would be almost impossible to rank the top three
so if there was a tier one of watch brands, mine would be Voutilainen, Ferdinand Bethoud, Jean Daniel Nichols. Moser is definitely not quite at that level yet, Rexhep is exceedingly good but not consistent unfortunately while MB&F has amazing creativity b...
You are most definitely the champion of redefining the holy trinity.
I’ve read your posts on this for several years, here and elsewhere. Not sure I’ve engaged much on them to be honest as to me it’s wholly irrelevant, not your posts but the marketing construct that is the holy trinity. Patek, VC and AP are producing mostly...
Agree
it's a marketing / assuring watch investors (I'm not going to call them collectors and that's a whole other conversation) that they are a store of value assignation.
Sorry to hear of cold day, please stay warm. i agree with much of what you and many others here are saying.
In a variety of ways, it is truly incredible the many, MANY watchmakers / brands (under 5000 / yr production) mentioned that most do feel surpass the Old School marketing of Holy Trinity. If this was back in the 1990s i'd have hoped, but not believed the ...
Before one picks a trinity, one first needs to decide on criteria for consideration. Otherwise, this exercise is futile.
And these criteria will have to be cumulative and need to be objective and measurable. So, for example, every contestant must: (i) have an uninterrupted existence of x years; (ii) manufacture at least x number of watches per year; (iii) verifiably spend x...
There's only one holy trinity
AP, PP and VC play their own personal league, then there are other realities, like those historical like GP and UN whose fate and path is still blurry, just to mention few names. We all have our own preferences, for some it's design and crazy movements, f...
I appreciate your enthusiasm! But it takes a little more than enthusiasm in developing a whole new category.
The contributions of each of those brands are significant. But... There are too many buts.
There was a time-not so long ago-when Lange booted out AP.
Or was it VC? Anyway, I agree there are too many superior watch fabricators theses days to narrow a top flight down to three. But it should be Journe, Parmagiani and Chopard. ;-)))
Sounds delicious!
I've got a huge block of 36 month old Parmigiano Reggiano in my fridge. Thinking I'm going to make Cacio e Pepe.
🤣😁 why limit ourselves to a trinity? Maybe go Pagan and start a Pantheon like the AHCI? 😊
My Pantheon includes but not limited to: Paul Gerber Ludovic Ballouard Beat Haldimann Kiu Tai Yu Franck Muller Roger Dubuis Vianney Halter George Daniels Derek Pratt Urban Jurgensen CL Klings JB Viot Philippe Dufour Renaud Tixier Pascal Coyon Hajime Asaok...
I really just don't get it.
Why do we need to be told or collectively decide who makes the best watches? I thought the whole point of being a watch collector was having a passion and desire for what pleases each of us the most irrespective of the opinions of others. I for one am not...
100% Agree Marc, who in the 1960 *****decided the 'Holy Trinity' for us*****. There was no vote.
Does anyone actually know who chose those three, and why they were chosen? Anyone at all know? Obviously whomever did, and why, has little (if any) relevance ~60 years later. Looking forward to a 2025 update, as am sure we can agree it is long overdue.
Oooh that's good, tho quite the mouthful (and we need a good acronym).
You said H.E.R.O.S. 2025.... Horological Excellence Reigns O ??? Supreme