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4817
Sur-Qualité (over quality)....
.... is what should justify the price, particularly for the movement finishing. It is what makes the watch a luxury product at a luxury price. Without that, all movements would be like the very good, accurate and extremely reliable Seiko/Mitoya movements.
Interesting discussion! 
Best,
E.
Counterpoint on Patek Philippe
There was a great thread stared a few days back on finishing and inward angles on modern Pateks. Now, I don’t have the expertise to judge these beyond “their movements look pretty nice and appealing to me.” The counterpoint I want to offer is that to me, ...
I completely agree
You don't need a loupe to see that a Patek is a very fine watch, and just the feel of it in your hand or on your wrist is half the battle won towards a purchase. Cazalea PS - a friend's watch, after almost 50 years of daily wear. ...
Thank you Horo_Traveler for providing your comments on this particular matter.
Each member/collector, whether being a Patek owner or not, has his / her preferences on what attributes appeal to him/her on watches and make personal decisions accordingly. There are enough brands and diversity in the horological world to satisfy various...
You put it very well
Patek is a brand that is the best in the world when you look at things holistically - value retention, reputation, history, technology, design. Are they the best in all these things? No, but taken all together they come on top.
I love vintage Patek and I love modern Patek.
Both have their charms strengths and beauty. There is no need to bash one in favor of the other. We can appreciate both by being open minded. H.
I agree that it is much more than just about finishing. We have to look at the overall package and I am sure we could even create different categories and introduce a rating system which would be much more coherent than just looking at the finishing...
Patek gets alot of things right but so do many others to be clear 😉👍
I think your commentary and the prior post's position can sit side-by-side without conflict.
I don't think anyone would disagree that a watch is more than mere finishing. Some very well-finished watches don't appeal whereas some lesser-finished watches are terrific. But for the top-tier of Swiss watchmaker (arguably, Patek), disappointment in mov...
Sur-Qualité (over quality)....
.... is what should justify the price, particularly for the movement finishing. It is what makes the watch a luxury product at a luxury price. Without that, all movements would be like the very good, accurate and extremely reliable Seiko/Mitoya movements....
I don’t believe anyone on this thread is bashing modern relative to vintage.
That’s a whole different thread that I’m not qualified to comment on This was more about me admiring Patek in general.
My comment regarding bashing was made as a general point
And not aimed at you, your post or anyone specifically. H.
Yes, and hence a counterpoint.
There are some who place a premium on very high finishing, others on the overall balance.
Agree 100%.
As you note, there are lots of great options from many brands that serve different interests and priorities for various collectors. And I know collectors who are simply not drawn to the look and general concept of Pateks.
In the end watches have one and only ONE purpose... And it isn't to tell time.
In this day and age their ability to tell time is, relatively, inaccurate compared to other means (like a cell phone) and the answer to, "What time is it" is ubiquitous for the same reason combined with TV, computer monitors and a plethora of appliances. ...
Hahaha!
That last swipe at FPJ struck a chord with me. I finally sold my CS last year after multiple mechanical failures (on a time-only watch? really?) and disappointing treatment by the brand. But I was glad the market overvalued the piece; it almost made up fo...
That's crazy! I've heard of many mechanical issues with FPJ but on a CS that's pretty terrible
IMHO FPJ owners are too forgiving, resonances that don't resonate, multiple services, actual functional issues are brushed under the rug in order to maintain the hype.
The only Resonance I’ve seen...
... and it was at a dealer, and it didn’t resonate. I pointed that out to the dealer and he said, huh, must not be sufficiently wound. He wound it, still didn’t resonate. I looked at the watch and said: “dude, you have ONE JOB.”
HAHAHAHA!!
Here's the thing with the Resonance... It is SUPPOSED to work on a similar principle to several metronomes on a table: they will all eventually sync up. But take those metronomes and put them in a moving car (ie your wrist) and they will never sync up. Hi...
Just wait for the resonance linesport with 2m wr
People will be camping out in front of the boutiques. Whenever I see an owner say it's no big deal that their resonance doesn't in fact resonate I have to hold back the rage.
You made an interesting point
The Resonance still does not seem to be scientifically proven as F.P.Journe speaks of acoustic resonance as the basis for achieving the sync between the two balances (and visually demonstrated via the seconds sub-dials). Philippe Dufour’s Duality or the M...
Exactly. To be perfectly frank about things....
Journe is treating the watch collecting community like fools and not just with made up trinkets like the Resonance and others like the Centigraphe that have simply "made up" functionality. Journe is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, lying about what these watc...
A rather strong sentiment that you have expressed!!
I do agree that the Centigraphe is a bit far-fetched in terms of what it professes to measure; as well as your point regarding the stamped dials. I have had the occasion to handle some of the Journe pieces and was not impressed with the finishing. I heard...
The T30 is the exception the brand, not the rule....
For me, the fact that a company can act with such an utter lack of integrity as a whole taints every watch with the name on the dial. It's just gone too far that a few, rare, off-shoot examples don't redeem them. Often, people bring up Journes early works...
Thank you for sharing! I don't like to dump on any watch brand but FPJ has struck me as a long con
When people don't seem to care that their complications don't actually work what else is there to say? What you've said makes a lot of sense, the manufactured hype would explain the cult like following of the brand irrespective of the quality of the produ...
Pauli :-))))
I enjoy reading your posts really — even though I own a Journe! But honestly my friend, I am curious to know what makes you smile ? The top 3 in your stable, what would they be? Best Gatsby
Well...
As of late, the watch #1 watch on hit list the blue dial Eichi II. In my collection I don't like to play favorites but these few get a lot of wear: \ Lange 1815 Chronograph My JLC Geophysic from 1958 LM101 in Palladium And last but certainly not least... ...
Pauli :-)
Hmmm.... I’ve been going through a bit of a Patek phase recently. So the number one watch that gets heaps of wrist time would be the 5960p followed by the 3940r. Apart from those two my De Bethune DB25 in wg/40mm is also back in the rotation (God I miss t...
Their brand cachet is definitely justified.
And I also agree with others that there’s lots of other attractive fish in the pond.
Thanks for the note BFP.
I was only stating my personal layperson’s views on the brand and cannot disagree with your case regarding effort/$$. I thoroughly enjoyed your post, one of the most entertaining and insightful ones in recent memory.
Aah, got it!
I was wondering if I had somehow created the perception that I was advocating for vintage over modern PPs, a topic I have no experience in
In a way I agree with your point of view even if having an extraordinary mouvement is also a pleasure.
The outer beauty coupled with an inner soul is something that has always attracted me…. it reminds me of an interview with Steve Job who said that an object should be as beautiful on the outside (what you see) as it is on the inside (what you don't see). ...
Patek has been using Silicon for quite some time
In response to the OP of HoroTraveller.. Caliber 240 which powers the 5110 ( and the subsequent 5130 and 5230 as well) uses Silinvar ( the abbreviation for Silicon Invariable) as part of the escape wheel ( spiromax balance). This iteration was from 2005 a...