sham1
9622
The dream ends!
Yesterday I was in Frankfurt to view a 3969R complete with box, papers and commemorative coin which I had left a deposit on in December. I was most excited and the watch fitted my wrist perfectly. However, on inspection with a loop, I noticed a large scratch on the side of the watch which made me uncomfortable to proceed with the purchase. I was quite happy to forego my deposit but the dealer said he would return it to me which was most unexpected but very much appreciated. I think in all honesty that it will be difficult to find an example of this 29 year old watch in mint condition with all its original documents. It might happen but I shall not hold my breath. Thank you all for you support and encouragement.
Jump hour dreams
I have always been fascinated by jump hour watches and none more so than the 3969R issued in a limited edition of 450 pieces to commemorate Patek's 150th anniversary. Prices have remained firm and few are being sold with the complete set - box, papers and...
Hi Sham, great questions from you !
Function wise AP contains more. Aesthetically Patek has a more interesting dial. Lineage wise, Patrk's 150th anniversary is more meaningful. For your smaller wrist, you need to decide which fits you better. Good luck with your decision! Cheers, Gordon
Hi Gordon!
They both would fit pretty well. I have tried on the 3969 but not the AP but at 34mm I doubt if size would be an issue. I was wondering if you or anyone else has experienced the sound of an AP minute repeater. I am familiar with the clarity of Patek minut...
Hi Sham, the pricing of the AP MR is...
tempting ! There s is a good reason for that of course. Issue is whether you really would want to settle on an AP MR. Let us know what you decide. Cheers Gordon
Interesting
that despite the AP being a minute repeater, the Patek would be the preferred choice. Perhaps, it is because this thread is in the Patek forum (I was unsure which forum to post this thread on but I thought I should give the Patek a fighting chance!!) Sett...
Definitely PP for me.
Another similar piece to add to the mix: FRANCK MULLER ref 2852HS - I've always coveted this one ...
Finally!
Mr Black comes through for AP Would be perturbed if the AP was out by 8 seconds a day?
"Choices"
Choices, and questions for choices, should always be made according to the heart and emotions, and according to the facts that are relevant for the person who has to make the choice. To chose between two options, two watches, is a highly subjective matter...
Agreed!
I do keep an open mind always and I agree that the final decision will be mine but it is always good to hear the opinions of others as sometimes I may have missed something in my own decision making process.
Definitely the AP for me
Impossible to beat a Minute Repeater in my opinion. Best wishes Alkiro
Thanks Alkiro!
I can rely on a reply from you always It seems an unfair contest on paper - a minute repeater/jump hour v a jump hour and I am pretty sure that the AP is a rarer than the Patek. I love the dial on the Patek compared to the 'dial' of the AP
May be I'm wrong but I think the AP is a John Schaeffer
Regarding the Cartier, I think it is even more gorgeous than the AP for me ;-)
You are right!!
The AP is a John Schaeffer and the Cartier is a rare gem. Movement wise however, the AP is arguably superior not to forget it is a minute repeater But if I strictly follow your advice I could save myself a lot of money as the Cartier is less than half the...
What I really love with the Cartier is its case shape.
For me, it's nicer than the AP even if, of course, it has not my dreaming complication ;-) Best wishes Alkiro
For me
All three case sizes are lovely as I am partial to cushion shaped case watches and this Cartier is one of my all time favourites among Cartiers together with the original small Santos Dumont and the Tank Basculante. Unfortunately, they do not make them li...
I love that watch!
especially yours has the movement on display which is ultra rare. I still wish I had kept my steel manual basculante which I had bought new but alas, it was not to be. A lovely watch apart from the fact that the crown was positioned awkwardly at 12 o'cloc...
Absolutely agree with you about the bad positioning of the crown at 12 of the Basculante
Regarding the Santos Dumont, I much prefer the large one and the skeleton one in palladium. Really nice. Best wishes Alkiro
I have tried
the large one and the titanium skeleton piece but unfortunately they lacked the X factor that I felt when wearing the original Dumont. Probably just me liking smaller watches or perhaps it was the discreet guilloched dial of the original. Yes the movement...
I understand your feeling about the size. Same for me usually.
Cartier has this faculty, for me, to make both nice timepieces and really poetic ones. In my opinion, this brand is underestimated. Best wishes Alkiro
It is therefore not a coincidence
that Cartier watches tend to hold their value better than most brands (outside Patek and Rolex) and this has little to do with the Cartier name but the fact that their designs are timeless and unique. Watches like the bell watch for example require a degr...
Absolutely agree with you about the timeless and unique design of Cartier timepieces.
Nevertheless, they don't hold their value for me. I owned two of them and I needed to resale them to finance other watches. Well, that was almost impossible to find a buyer at a reasonable price :-/ Best wishes Alkiro
Hi Alkiro, sorry to hear about your Cartier experiences! How much ...
off original price did you end up selling them at ? Thanks, Gordon
No worries Gordon
I bought them used so I didn't lose too much money. I would say 10%. But if I had bought them new that would have been another story (may be -50%). Best wishes Alkiro
:-)
A 10% loss on a watch is extremely good Alkiro even on a used model. I have been so accustomed to losing 75 to 80% on my new watches for 20 years before discovering Patek!!
Yes I know that a 10% loss is absolutely acceptable :-)
Unfortunately, when it's not a Rolex or PP, most of the time we have to accept a loss :-/ Best wishes Alkiro
Agreed
and other safe bets are a Philip Dufour, RW Smith and the Lange 1815 moonphase limited editions. People say we must enjoy the watch despite its resale value but believe you me when one has lost a lot of money on watches, it is only natural to prioritise r...
Yes of course you're right. Few examples just for you ;-)
I precise that the Philippe Dufour below is not mine... but the one of Philippe Dufour ;-) Best wishes Alkiro ...
Very nice, thank you Alkiro!
I once owned the Lange honey gold moonphase watch which I sold and it was the first ever watch that I made money on!
Sorry to hear that Alkiro
When I had my platinum Santos Dumont, I sold it at a 50% loss. Today a similar model (new old stock) is being sold at the same list price as it was 20 years ago and a used one slightly lower. I consider a 50% loss reasonable simply because I have had some...
Don't forget that if you take into account inflation, the same list price as 20 years ago is an effective loss of 40% to 50%.
But we know that our main goal is not to earn money with watches but mainly enjoy them ;-) I can understand why collectors prefer to buy PP or Rolex timepieces because if they want to resale them one day they won't suffer a big loss (may be they even will...
True Alkiro
But there are many watches that had been marked up so much when new that even without taking into the effects of inflation, they would sell at 50% less today even if they were new old stock. I speak from experience as last year I purchased a Mont Blanc Vi...
It was similar to this one!
A limited edition of only 58 with the famous 13.29 Minerva movement but arguably too bulky for me. Sublime movement and an adorable dial though. ...
Actually mine was the
41mm version. The 47mm version came with the 16.29 movement (used in the current 1858 chronos) whereas the 41mm version used the smaller 13.29 movement
Or maybe my memory is failing me :-)
I think the 41mm used the 13.23 movement, sorry (too many figures to remember )
Absolutely!
Despite the curvature of the case, the watch was pretty high and would catch items at work!
I must confess!
Never has thread strayed so much from the initial Patek v AP question!!! Enjoyed the discussion though.
Tricky question as it's really a taste issue. But....
I prefer the PP here as, to my (clearly untrained) eye, the AP has a "sort of" look of a Minion about it.
Thanks Joe!
Not sure what you meant by 'minion'. And I beg to differ again - your eye is pretty well trained!
I'm not a fan of that AP.
Never was. But it is a minute repeater; and if the prices are close... On the other hand, you owe yourself a retirement present-one where you can take immediate possession-AND a "big move" (home) present. So, maybe just get them both. Then you will only h...
Thanks for your reply Mike! :-)
If the AP was not a minute repeater, there would be no contest! I wish I did owe myself a retirement gift but I have already bought two retirement gifts - arguably in the form of deposits for these two beauties - one I shall collect in exactly 4 weeks tod...
Agreed Mike!
Which is why I can't get them both even though money no object, I would love to
The Smith doesn't count!
By the time you get that you will be old and stooped and gray-bearded and walking with a cane and you may not even remember you ordered it. The "3" are the Moser, the PP and the AP.
Good gracious Mike!! :-)
I am only 53 and still swim daily and play squash so I sure hope that in 3 years time I will not be stooped and walking with a cane(not so good for squash)!! And unless Alzheimer's hits me early, I doubt I can forget the large deposit that has gone into R...
Thank God it wasn't 5!! :-)
Apparently that is the new waiting list for an order placed for a RW Smith today!
Sham, while I don't have an opinion as to which you should buy, this may influence you: The Patek has become a relative bargain.
When it was introduced in 1989 the retail price was about $15,000 USD, but it traded way above that. I remember sitting in an auction not long after its introduction, when one sold all in for $45,000 USD! Three times retail!! Prices are way down - probabl...
Thank you Patekova!
It is good to know that you think that the 3969 is currently under priced. I did not even realise what its retail price was in 1989 probably because I was wearing a Raymond Weil then and had no knowledge of Patek then So thank you for the valuable informa...
The dream ends!
Yesterday I was in Frankfurt to view a 3969R complete with box, papers and commemorative coin which I had left a deposit on in December. I was most excited and the watch fitted my wrist perfectly. However, on inspection with a loop, I noticed a large scra...
Your 3969R is a lovely watch!
And I would have bought the one in Frankfurt if not for the scratch. The 3969R is quite different of course from the 3878J skeleton The latter is a work of art with arguably more hand finishing while the 3969R is a unique and elegant jump hour. Where the ...