Patek Philippe

I have always been fascinated by jump hour watches and none more so than the 3969R issued in a limited edition of 450 pieces to commemorate Patek's 150th anniversary. Prices have remained firm and few are being sold with the complete set - box, papers and...  

Function wise AP contains more. Aesthetically Patek has a more interesting dial. Lineage wise, Patrk's 150th anniversary is more meaningful. For your smaller wrist, you need to decide which fits you better. Good luck with your decision! Cheers, Gordon

They both would fit pretty well. I have tried on the 3969 but not the AP but at 34mm I doubt if size would be an issue. I was wondering if you or anyone else has experienced the sound of an AP minute repeater. I am familiar with the clarity of Patek minut... 

tempting ! There s is a good reason for that of course. Issue is whether you really would want to settle on an AP MR. Let us know what you decide. Cheers Gordon

that despite the AP being a minute repeater, the Patek would be the preferred choice. Perhaps, it is because this thread is in the Patek forum (I was unsure which forum to post this thread on but I thought I should give the Patek a fighting chance!!) Sett... 

Another similar piece to add to the mix: FRANCK MULLER ref 2852HS - I've always coveted this one ...  

That Franck Muller looks impressive, simple and minimalistic!

Mr Black comes through for AP Would be perturbed if the AP was out by 8 seconds a day?

Choices, and questions for choices, should always be made according to the heart and emotions, and according to the facts that are relevant for the person who has to make the choice. To chose between two options, two watches, is a highly subjective matter... 

I do keep an open mind always and I agree that the final decision will be mine but it is always good to hear the opinions of others as sometimes I may have missed something in my own decision making process.

Impossible to beat a Minute Repeater in my opinion. Best wishes Alkiro

I can rely on a reply from you always It seems an unfair contest on paper - a minute repeater/jump hour v a jump hour and I am pretty sure that the AP is a rarer than the Patek. I love the dial on the Patek compared to the 'dial' of the AP

Best wishes Alkiro

as that dial is quite unique just like this one! ...  

Regarding the Cartier, I think it is even more gorgeous than the AP for me ;-)

The AP is a John Schaeffer and the Cartier is a rare gem. Movement wise however, the AP is arguably superior not to forget it is a minute repeater But if I strictly follow your advice I could save myself a lot of money as the Cartier is less than half the... 

For me, it's nicer than the AP even if, of course, it has not my dreaming complication ;-) Best wishes Alkiro

All three case sizes are lovely as I am partial to cushion shaped case watches and this Cartier is one of my all time favourites among Cartiers together with the original small Santos Dumont and the Tank Basculante. Unfortunately, they do not make them li... 

Best wishes Alkiro ...  

especially yours has the movement on display which is ultra rare. I still wish I had kept my steel manual basculante which I had bought new but alas, it was not to be. A lovely watch apart from the fact that the crown was positioned awkwardly at 12 o'cloc...  

Regarding the Santos Dumont, I much prefer the large one and the skeleton one in palladium. Really nice. Best wishes Alkiro

the large one and the titanium skeleton piece but unfortunately they lacked the X factor that I felt when wearing the original Dumont. Probably just me liking smaller watches or perhaps it was the discreet guilloched dial of the original. Yes the movement... 

Cartier has this faculty, for me, to make both nice timepieces and really poetic ones. In my opinion, this brand is underestimated. Best wishes Alkiro

that Cartier watches tend to hold their value better than most brands (outside Patek and Rolex) and this has little to do with the Cartier name but the fact that their designs are timeless and unique. Watches like the bell watch for example require a degr... 

Nevertheless, they don't hold their value for me. I owned two of them and I needed to resale them to finance other watches. Well, that was almost impossible to find a buyer at a reasonable price :-/ Best wishes Alkiro

off original price did you end up selling them at ? Thanks, Gordon

I bought them used so I didn't lose too much money. I would say 10%. But if I had bought them new that would have been another story (may be -50%). Best wishes Alkiro

A 10% loss on a watch is extremely good Alkiro even on a used model. I have been so accustomed to losing 75 to 80% on my new watches for 20 years before discovering Patek!!

Unfortunately, when it's not a Rolex or PP, most of the time we have to accept a loss :-/ Best wishes Alkiro

and other safe bets are a Philip Dufour, RW Smith and the Lange 1815 moonphase limited editions. People say we must enjoy the watch despite its resale value but believe you me when one has lost a lot of money on watches, it is only natural to prioritise r... 

I precise that the Philippe Dufour below is not mine... but the one of Philippe Dufour ;-) Best wishes Alkiro ...  

I once owned the Lange honey gold moonphase watch which I sold and it was the first ever watch that I made money on!

Best wishes Alkiro

It is a gem that Emil Lange of yours

Best wishes Alkiro

When I had my platinum Santos Dumont, I sold it at a 50% loss. Today a similar model (new old stock) is being sold at the same list price as it was 20 years ago and a used one slightly lower. I consider a 50% loss reasonable simply because I have had some... 

But we know that our main goal is not to earn money with watches but mainly enjoy them ;-) I can understand why collectors prefer to buy PP or Rolex timepieces because if they want to resale them one day they won't suffer a big loss (may be they even will... 

But there are many watches that had been marked up so much when new that even without taking into the effects of inflation, they would sell at 50% less today even if they were new old stock. I speak from experience as last year I purchased a Mont Blanc Vi... 

Do you have few shots of your Montblanc? Best wishes Alkiro

A limited edition of only 58 with the famous 13.29 Minerva movement but arguably too bulky for me. Sublime movement and an adorable dial though. ...  

Best wishes Alkiro

41mm version. The 47mm version came with the 16.29 movement (used in the current 1858 chronos) whereas the 41mm version used the smaller 13.29 movement

I think the 41mm used the 13.23 movement, sorry (too many figures to remember )

Best wishes Alkiro

Best wishes Alkiro

Despite the curvature of the case, the watch was pretty high and would catch items at work!

Best wishes Alkiro

Never has thread strayed so much from the initial Patek v AP question!!! Enjoyed the discussion though.

Best wishes Alkiro

I prefer the PP here as, to my (clearly untrained) eye, the AP has a "sort of" look of a Minion about it.

Not sure what you meant by 'minion'. And I beg to differ again - your eye is pretty well trained!

Not sure what happened there Joe but thanks anyway.

It is the thought that counts!

Never was. But it is a minute repeater; and if the prices are close... On the other hand, you owe yourself a retirement present-one where you can take immediate possession-AND a "big move" (home) present. So, maybe just get them both. Then you will only h... 

If the AP was not a minute repeater, there would be no contest! I wish I did owe myself a retirement gift but I have already bought two retirement gifts - arguably in the form of deposits for these two beauties - one I shall collect in exactly 4 weeks tod...  

Which is why I can't get them both even though money no object, I would love to

By the time you get that you will be old and stooped and gray-bearded and walking with a cane and you may not even remember you ordered it. The "3" are the Moser, the PP and the AP.

I am only 53 and still swim daily and play squash so I sure hope that in 3 years time I will not be stooped and walking with a cane(not so good for squash)!! And unless Alzheimer's hits me early, I doubt I can forget the large deposit that has gone into R... 

It's a long time away. Years and years. 3. Same number as Moser, PP, AP-3!

Apparently that is the new waiting list for an order placed for a RW Smith today!

When it was introduced in 1989 the retail price was about $15,000 USD, but it traded way above that. I remember sitting in an auction not long after its introduction, when one sold all in for $45,000 USD! Three times retail!! Prices are way down - probabl... 

It is good to know that you think that the 3969 is currently under priced. I did not even realise what its retail price was in 1989 probably because I was wearing a Raymond Weil then and had no knowledge of Patek then So thank you for the valuable informa... 

Yesterday I was in Frankfurt to view a 3969R complete with box, papers and commemorative coin which I had left a deposit on in December. I was most excited and the watch fitted my wrist perfectly. However, on inspection with a loop, I noticed a large scra... 

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And I would have bought the one in Frankfurt if not for the scratch. The 3969R is quite different of course from the 3878J skeleton The latter is a work of art with arguably more hand finishing while the 3969R is a unique and elegant jump hour. Where the ...