gerald.d
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If being recommended for bookmarking, then...
... probably a few other small things should be addressed. I'd be most interested to see any examples of watches that disprove any of the below
- With regards the vintage Grand Seiko era, the final catalogue that the watches appeared in was volume 2 of 1975. Certainly it is possible/likely that retailers still had stock in 1976 and maybe beyond, I think the "official" era should follow the time that the watches were being produced and/or promoted, so I'd say it was from 1960 through to 1975.
- When discussing the various series, there is a difference between production and sale/marketing. KMII throughout refers to production...
- Grand Seiko First - production commenced in 1960, with the earliest example I've seen showing a case serial number from April of that year. The first official publication I can track down that mentions this series is the Seiko News newsletter from March 1960, which introduced the watch to Seiko's dealers. This does not necessarily imply that the watch was not on sale prior to that month. The certificate of the watch that is featured on the cover and inside the newsletter is dated January 9th 1961. Personally, I have not seen any certificate dating from 1960, although this of course by no means implies that they don't exist - in fact I would assume that they must do. I have never seen a Grand Seiko First that was manufactured in 1964.
- 57GS - I've never seen a 5722-9991 from 1969. Someone in a FB group claimed to have one, but wasn't able to provide an image of the case back. The final appearance of any 57GS model in official publications was in the 1968 volume 2 catalogue. If they were still being manufactured in 1969, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that they should at least still be appearing in the catalogues for that year. Happy to be proven wrong on this though if someone can show a caseback dated 1969 (off the top of my head - I've not researched this greatly, I can't actually recall ever seeing a 57GS manufactured in 1968, but that could just be down to my poor memory).
- 44GS - Only the 4420B movement was used in the Grand Seikos. The 4420A movement was used in the King Seikos that predated the 44GS.
- 62GS - The earliest examples of these actually date from 1966 (and I am talking about the Grand Seikos, not the Seikomatic Chronometers). Note that whilst production of the 62GS pre-dates that of the 44GS by some considerable margin (possibly as much as 9 months), from a marketing perspective 44GS first appeared in the supplement to the 1967 volume 2 catalogue, whilst the 62GS first appeared in the Seiko Sales newsletter from November 1967 - 15 months after the earliest case back serial number I've seen. I am not sure of the publication date of the supplement to volume 2 of 1967 catalogue.
- 61GS - Earliest examples actually date from 1967 (the earliest I've seen, and own, is from October of that year). I have never seen a 61GS with a 1975 production date. Again - that is not to say that examples don't exist, just that I've never seen one. From a marketing perspective, the series makes its first appearance in the February 1968 edition of Seiko Sales, and its last in the 1975 V2 catalogue. Note however that no 61GS models were marketed in the 1973 catalogues, and only selected Specials and VFA's were re-introduced in the 1974 and 1975 catalogues. To all intents and purposes, it would appear that the 61GS series was phased out and replaced by the 56GS series.
- 45GS - I've never seen a 45GS with a produciton date in 1972 or later. They were first marketed in Seiko Sales from November 1968, and last marketed in volume 1 of the 1973 catalogue (where only the 18K gold 4520/2-8010's make an appearance)
- 56GS - Again, I've never seen a 1975 produced 56GS, but this is not to say they don't exist. The series was introduced in the December 1970 Suwa "Let's Go" publication, and then subsequently in the 1971 volume 1 catalogue. They made their last appearance in the 1975 volume 2 catalogue.
I must extend my sincere thanks to Anthony Kable for his tremendous support and help with the research that has provided the evidence for the above (and a heck of a lot more, it must be said). At some point later in the year I hope to be able to publish all the data behind this.
Kind regards,
Gerald.
💰186 Marketplace Listings for Girard Perregaux›Grand Seiko 62GS · 2 for sale · 42 discussions›Grand Seiko 62gs · 2 for sale · 42 discussions›
Grammar of Design meets Hi-Beat - a review of the Grand Seiko 4520-8000
Last last year I determined for myself that high frequency watches were definitely one of my collecting topics - and after taking some time to compile a list of high frequency calibres (those beating at 36.000vph or above (here: the overview - and thanks...
Thanks a lot, Alkiro!
Glad if you learned something new and enjoyed the article! Like with all things vintage the exploration is half the fun. Luckily GS is fairly well documented in the meantime, so one has good sources to consult
With 122 distinct models you need to be Blomman to cover it all ;)
And then there are countless other vintage brands...
Observatory confusion, and number of models
Great review of a wonderful watch! Just wanted to pick up on a couple of points. "6185 (A and B, VFA and Observatory Chronometers, date)" " Cal. 4520 (no date), 4522 (date) and 4580 (VFA, Obervatory Chronometers)" " or one of the just over 120 Observatory...
Thank you so much for the corrections and clarification!
Very much obliged. Will correct my initial post immediately - when my children allow Btw. your posts on the subject matter have been instrumental in me making the jump into the vintage GS field, so much obliged! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Update - AOC's with Neuchatel certificates DO exist
Hi all - I was doing some research on a GP Observatory Chronometer that is currently up for sale, and came across this thread from earlier in the year. Just to update my above post with new information that has come to my attention over the last few weeks...
Thanks a lot for this additional information, Gerald!
Looking forward to what else you will uncover in relation to the topic - very fascinating
Wow, KMII, when did you have time to do this research, man!
Wonderful work, wonderful writing. Even the SEIKO people would appreciate such a depository of knowledge - they are notorious for NOT recording things..... You are doing for passion and I admire it and you get my 100% respect. Some uses people like you ju...
While you're here... :)
Hi Ken - While you're here, would you be able to provide an accurate translation of the attached image? It's the text for the AOC that appears in the January 1970 issue of the Seiko Sales newsletter. It would help to clear up exactly what claims were bein...
Thanks for your kind words, Ken!
But you do me too much honour. I just thought it would be interesting to summarise some bits for our community - luckily there are quite some enthusiasts who have put together lots of knowledge already. Always much easier to do a little contribution when ...
Nah, your summary is great...
... so, it is really a reference post all the Seiko fans to bookmark! My writing is just too long, boringfully (is this even a word?) long, so even I am lost while reading LOL! Let me know anything I can be of help for the quest of the knowledge!
If being recommended for bookmarking, then...
... probably a few other small things should be addressed. I'd be most interested to see any examples of watches that disprove any of the below With regards the vintage Grand Seiko era, the final catalogue that the watches appeared in was volume 2 of 1975...
You seem to be an inexhaustible fount of knowledge, Gerald!
I have added the corrections in the post above
57GS
Ok so I've just checked through the last 100 examples of the 5722-9991 to be sold on Yahoo Japan. The latest production date I could find was from March 1968.
Seems like I wrote much more profound stuff all those years ago 😊👍🏻🙏🏻
A bit more challenging now with two children 🤷🏻♂️
Very good thread. Thank you
I still have a question : do you know what the black line on the hands is made of?
thank you for this post... a few basic questions, if you know or can find out...
What was the retail price of the 45GS when it came out in 1969? (in US dollars and in Japanese yen if possible) Was it considered a basic or high-end/luxury watch? [I have no what a luxury watch cost in the 1960s for reference such as Patek, Omega, etc] W...
Let me answer as best I can…
As we are generally not talking about pricing on WPS I never researched this aspect. Google might have the answer 🤷🏻♂️ As far as I know GS back in the day was primarily a JDM and Asia product - the first official sales in Europe came with the opening of ...
