Patek Philippe

Please give me your opinion as to the new 5970P

This message has been edited by amanico on 2009-04-11 12:09:45

But put it this way, if I had the opportunity to buy one.

I would grab it with both hands.

if i had the opportunity i would grab it with both hands and feet!!! i'm number 6 on my AD's list chances of me getting one this year or next or even the year after that are slim to zero!!lol!!

R's

Sid

Your chances are of obtaining a 5970 P is none to none being 6th in line.

true....

S

I guarantee they will be easily obtainable, through the gray market, as usual, and I bet we will see at least a couple dozen (yes I said a couple DOZEN) for sale in the next year, two years... But this does not mean that it will be easy to get one from an AD, nor that the watch is not very rare... but oh yes, they will be popping up!

I do not mean to come off as flippant, but I really do believe we will see many 5070P's for sale.

For the record, I would love to own this watch, despite my luke-warm reaction to the pictures.... After all, it is a platinum Patek chrono perpetual... who wouldn't want it?

Mostel, we seem to have this endoring love afair with Patek Customers and their Authorized Dealers and if you say anthing about Grey Market or anything about discount you will get your head cut off.

Certainly, as long as the economy is not red hot and everybody getting rich, you certainly will see 5970P's on the grey market, and you can get some good deals at Auctions these days. 

I tell you Mostel you say anything on this site outside of How Great Patek Philippe Authorized Dealers are and you cannot get this product unless you pay full price, and you should feel so thankful that a Patek Philippe dealer would be willing to sell you a limited supply of Patek Philippe Watches to you at full retail, and you should bow down and worship the Patek Philippe AD.  The scare rhetoric about scarcity gets to be annoying to read at time

Wake up and smell the coffee, these Authorized Dealers are Merchants trying to get the most money out of you.  They are only interested in getting every last dollar that they can out of you

This is not a rude response.  I think what I am saying is true.  Patek Philippe AD's are only thinking about money and profit and nothing else matters.  They will tell you anything to get the most money out of you.

this is yummy
I'm not a fan of Black Dial, well...I do like Journe Black Label tourbillion and the Kari Black Observatoire.
*CL

Its not that I dislike black dials, on the contrary

But when I saw the 5070P with blue dial months ago I was suprised by it's beauty. I don't know why but platinum and a blue sunbuers dial is amazing.

There is 1 VERY lucky owner with e 5970 blue dial ... Too bad I did not have 700.000 euro extra at that time   LOLOLOL

Saw it in basel, you can not compare only by seeing it on a foto or on the homepage! THIS THE ULTIMATE WATCH FOR ME
It will be an important watch in the history of most aftersought collectors watches.

I can't compare a photo to a real watch but it is still a Black Dial. I have seen what a black dial has done to 5971, 3970 or 5004,
can't really think what diff will this make.
I know it is a beauty for those who likes black dial watch but it sure ain't anything extraordinaire to rave about.
A 5970P with arabic index, 38mm , blue chrono hand and blue chrono counter hand but silver second hand, will surely shook the world
In my dream.....droooooool
*CL

.....some buyers who will want it only because of its rarity, bragging rights and 'investment potential'

It is doubtful that there will be any unfilled orders on this model.  Eventually all orders will get filled if your willing to wait.  For sure there will be alot of hype and arrogant talk about the impossibility of obtaining this model, but unless the economy is red hot I think you should have no problem obtaining a Ref 5970P without fighting for one.

The 5960P's were red hot popular at one time but now you can get one with relative easy.  Just don't believe all the hype.

I'd have to agree with you about most Pateks. The 5960P was going
for a huge premium to those who didn't want a long wait. But, once
it went into full production, it eventually became the case that
there were 5960Ps sitting around unsold (and destined for grey
market dealers). But, this is because there isn't much limiting
the production of 5960P, expect the total productive capacity of
Patek. But, the 5960P with its new modern chrono movement requires
much less effort to build and adjust, so it is not hard for Patek
to churn them out. Any limiting of them is likely due to Patek
wanting to avoid them becoming too common.

But the 5970 is different. Starting in this year, Patek no longer
gets Nouvelle Lemanias, so that puts a hard limit on the number that
can be made. The 5970G, 5970R, and now 5970J have all been discontinued.
Shortly, the 5970P will be discontinued as well. I don't think the
poor world economy will have much of an effect. Basically, there are
many more people who can easily afford a 5970P than there are 5970Ps
to go around. Plus, people who can afford a 5970P are barely affected
in any personal way by the economy. Sure, it may be disappointing to
be worth only $100 Million this year when you were worth $200 Million last
year, but from the standpoint of being able to afford a 5970P nothing
has changed.

Finally, the 5970 is still one of the grail watches sought
after by both collectors who appreciate its horological significance
and speculators who don't have to speculate much to realize all
5970s (even 5970J) will surely appreciate in value. Interestingly
enough, the recent downturn has forced many people to sell their 5970s
at fire sale prices, so they can raise cash for margin calls and
other unfortunate consequences of Great Depression II. For those
of you who are collectors, now is a great time to acquire a 5970
at a price that years from now you will be kicking yourself for passing
by.
Eric von Schonberg

Hi Eric,

I mostly agree with what you write except for one point! 

I've never seen anywhere that Patek Philippe is no longer going to get Nouvelle Lemania base ebauches.

The Swatch Group has never said AFAIK that they would no longer deliver them either!

Do you have precise information to state that?

I'm seriously interested to know.

Cheers

Dje

ps: AFAIK Patek Philippe has never indicated that they were developing a new manual wind chrono calibre either, but I may have missed something!

Patek no longer getting Nouvelle Lemania after 2009 has been
part of the general knowledge for so long now, that I'm
having trouble remembering where this info originated. I know
it has been discussed on another Patek forum (it's another
popular Patek forum, but I probably can't say the name here).
As I remember it, this info is much more than rumor, but rather
specific info which should be reliable.

Does anyone remember where this originated? Does anyone have
further info that would suggest this is not true? Either way,
since I don't remember how I have this info, I'm interested
in any responses.
Eric von Schonberg

Hi,

Thank you for your frank answer.

I know that it is an information, or presented like an information on many fora and has been for a while.

Still I dont remember ever seeing a real statemetn of such information by an authorized source.

It is exactly like a possible in-house manual wind chrono (non split) by PP. Collectors and fora writers have for so long said that it was going to be issued that many people are waiting for it like a promised thing, but AFAIK Patek Philippe has never said anything about its existence.

Maybe the 5959 is already the watch we're all waiting for! 

I too hope to find more....

Cheers

Dje

 

I recall reading an article in which the swatch group stated that they would no longer suppy Lemaina movements after 2010 (??).

If I recall, the article was written in "International Watch" magazine. 

I will try to dig for it ( I read it approx 1+ years ago), and give you the reference and publication number of this particular article.

Cheers,

Arthur.

 

International Watch Magazine: September 2006, page 96

Interview with Mr.Hayek:

The article states that by 2010, the Swatch Group would halt sales of movement ebaches (kits) to firms outside the Swatch Group (the original set date was 2008, but Swiss Authorities moved the date forward to 2010).

Not sure if there has been any changes since this publication.

Cheers,

Arthur.

 

Hi Arthur,

I indeed remember this information.

I don't know either if there is new information since that time, or new legal decisions on that subject.

The original decision was indeed for "ebauches" (calibre kits) as a general policy for the Swatch Group. Lemania is indeed part of the Swatch Group.

Still you can imagine  that stopping the delivery of such kits to Patek Philippe is not the objective of the Swatch Group in this matter (or not the main objective obviously ), so I would not take for granted that Lemania will stop its deliveries by 2010! AFAIK Mr Stern and Mr Hayek are in excellent terms!

Let's wait till 2011!

Cheers

Dje

Hi Jerome,

No one truly know's how this will unfold.

However, my opinion is the Lemania based watches will ceize production, in the foreseeable future; approx. 12-24 months, not necessarily because Mr.Hayek will cut Patek off by a specific date (as you stated the relationship is quite strong) , but that Patek will have a "new" manaul-wind chrono-perpertual movement and hence will no longer have to rely on a third party supplier.

Just an opinion, not a fact.

Anyway, just wanted to bring a print article to support the previous topic of discusssion.

Cheers,

Arthur.

 

Eric,

The points that you have raised are very good advice for any of us looking at obtaining PP's at this level. The reason for my question to the forum was that I am not concerned about profiting from the purchase of this watch, however by the same token no one likes to throw money away. Most of us that have a passion for beautiful watches appreciate PP's products and understand why the slightly conservative designs last the test of time.

Thank you for your contribution,

My motivation is not to speculate of profit from any appreciation
of watches, but I also don't want to buy something that would
later be worth considerably less, making the purchase a waste of
money.
Eric von Schonberg

Hi,

Thank you for this point, and even more for your picture that is the most appealing I've seen so far of this watch!

It feel now as attracting (for me) as the 5971 that I've always found beautiful.

Cheers

Dje

Certainly the 5970P will be a collectable.  I do wonder about the 5131J, and the 5131G.  Those World Time Watches are not difficult to make and they have made quite a bit of them.  I believe that the clonisoine (mispelled) dial may be more difficult to make but I would think if alot of people want them, that Patek will make alot of them, just like the 5960 but I would think certainly the 5970P will not be made in large amounts, and is a better investment than the 5131J or 5131G. What do people think?

Which Pateks have you "invested" in so we can determine how much value your portfolio has lost. This it not an investment forum.

Hi arnon,

We don't talk about Oil on this site Arnon. You might think that is what we talk about here, but we don't.
We talk about Patek Philippe Wristwatches on this site, not OPEC, not Islam.

If you wish to talk about Oil Arnon, than I suggest that you discuss that on some Islamic oil Investment Forum.

Park Avenue,

We've exchanged enough emails!

Please show more respect to others. Your answer is disrespectful in itself and specially since you've been warned several times that it is not an investment forum. Plus the content of your answer is more than borderline.

Please again realize and consider that we don't discuss value or investment aspects on this site!

Plaese read this again:  patek.watchprosite.com =

This is my definitive and last answer. That means that's the last time I remind this to you!

Best regards

Dje

Value is not being discussed,  Your constant accusations of me discussing value is merely immaginations in your head.  What I am asking is no different than discussing whether or not the 5970P is going to be the Patek Watch of 2009, that certainly is discussing value, if your going to falsely accuse me of discussing value.

What you should do is ban Patek Philippe Authorised Dealers from this site, unless Patek Philippe Authorized Dealers is paying the moderator of this site?