Patek Philippe

Ok I know this is a Patek forum so don't be to hard on the Lange, but this weekend I had the opportunity to view to of my grails next to each other and I have to say if the day arrives that I would have to make a choice it wouldn't be easy.

First of all the Patek 5960 had my attention since they added the blue Platinum version, since I'm not the guy that wears classical watches and is mostly hanging around in casual clothes I thought this one could be wearable with jeans and polos

But .... since Lange anounced the new version of the Datograph at 41mm I started to hesitate, the beautifully finished movement is way more attractive than the 5960 movement IMO, and the overall style of the Lange started to please me more and more.

I know you guys will probably lean forward to the Patek but still I'd like to hear why !!

As a matter of indication the LP of the Lange in Europe is 70K  and the Patek is 73K so there is basically not much difference, but maybe the value in a few years will end up different ???

 

so let's hear what you have to say  

 

 

 

But if you gave me the choice between the first Dato and the Patek, I would have said Dato.

I don't like the new Dato... Which lost a lor of its character and charm / strenght, IMO.

The Dato is already an icon, and the manual movement is much more pleasant to see than the automatic housed in the 5960.

Now, I find two reasons to love the Patek:

1/ It was the first in house automatic movement ( or was is the one of the Nautilus? ), which is an historical argument.

2/ THe monocounter is really something: Original, and really appealing to see.

I would rather go for the ruthenium, which is to die for,but the blue is traditional for a platinum Patek case.

So, to sum my opinion, the first Dato is the one to get, but this is not a reason to not like and appreciate the 5960P.

I would dare saying that if the Dato is already an iconic Chrono, the Patek 5960 may become an icon...

A watch which is in my list...

Best,

Nicolas.

This message has been edited by amanico on 2012-07-15 10:06:57

nt

No message body This message has been edited by amanico on 2012-07-15 11:19:47

Don't be apprehensive about the future value here: will be the same.

The 5960 is technically very good composed, no doubt, but it is not a chrono as the scaling is wrong.

The beat ratio 28.800 is far to high for a traditional watch.

Also: annual calendar consumes nearly 30% of the energy for a "long jump", hence the pr indicator.

Over these facts a clever cluth, ceramic bearings and some other technical features will not help: it is not a chrono.

It looks like a toy on the wrist in blue, but the RG 5960 gets away with that, as it looks credible.

To answer Nicolas' question: the RG 5960 was the first auto chrono.


Lange: - 18.000 is traditional watch making, now with a longer pr and a pr indicator on top, I mean at the bottom !
           
             - inhouse mainspring, which Patek does not have, IF I am not mistaken.

Here the technical upgrade and design do make sense!

Have not tried the new lange but 5960 in p and rg: but the Lange will be fine as it is not a classic watch per se and therefore

size should be o.k..


Best

Moritz

The Dato is the benchmark of chronos, and both the new and old versions are spectacular.  The new one probably fits better on the wrist, especially in the age of larger watches, and given it's diameter/thickness ratio.  I do not agree with statements that the new one has lost something compared to the old--the character is a bit different, but it could be argued to the contrary that it has gained a lot, including longer PR and PR indicator.

I guess that is your opinion 

 

But even if you are right for me the looks are more important and I do prefer the Patek 5960. I was with Patrick when we saw both and yes, the Lange is nice, very nice.  But I would take the 5960. Another option was the 5170 which is my favorite but too classic for Patrick.

So yes, the Dato might have a nicer ... better (?) movement but I don't care. A Nissan GTR has probably a better engine than a 911 4s but not in a million years will I pick the Nissan

The 5960P. I happen to love the blue dial and have that one myself. Either way you have to make the choice and can't go wrong with either IMHO. 

The Dato is an icon and THE MUST HAVE chrono without any doubt.  The level of finishing, the detail of the movement, without any doubt far beyond the Patek, IMHO.  

... A limited edition! My third favourite Lange.

But yes between those two certainly the Lange.

I know they are in a different stratosphere price wise but the Patek 5270 is one of the few Chrono Calendars that is pleasing to me.....

I have never seen this edition? When did it appear? Do you make this edition up?

For a spanish retailer if I'm not wrong. It is very nice and exclusive but it has not got a sapphire case back.

is an AD in Milano, Italy.

Sometimes they have incredible LE´s

Oliver

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The Dato PISA was for the Italian Pisa retailer and comes with a crystal glass back and a solid one too.  So the customer can choice which one he wants.  Both were delivered with the watch.

Thanks for the correction, I've always seen it with it's plain case back and thought it was a shame.

Good news.

I agree with the post above, that calls the Dategraph a "benchmark" among chronographs.  I can think of no chronograph that better wears that moniker.

...but imho, lange is in a different league.

DATO for ME! Esp the gen 1.

cheers

PAt

The Lange Dato (First Gen) and PP 5960P (First Gen i.e. not the newer blue dial), my vote goes for the Lange Dato. It is definitely an iconic and benchmark chrono and the finishing and aesthetics of the manual wound movement is definitely something to marvel upon! I also prefer my chronos to be manual wound. The only other Patek Chrono that I would consider in this list would be the 5070P albeit it not being a flyback or having any kind of calendar functions. But then that is exactly what makes the 5070P such a pure and iconic chrono! 

Seems like we both have similar taste my friend. 

of the Dato and it definitely fits in the category of 'best in class' for me.

The 5960 is commendable for it's innovation and fills a mid-way slot in the Patek line-up. It's auto chrono plus annual calender is a very practical and useful complication but IMO it lacks the finesse of the 5970 / 5270, datograph/perp. etc. Agree with tahoeblue on the pusher feel - Daytona like, if wanting a comparison.

Not exactly the best match-up for a duel, a better opponent IMO would be the Patek 5170.

In either case I would go for the Lange......but I may change my mind when both are presented in front of me and compared on the wrist. Initial gut feeling and pulchritude often wins out and the Patek is no slouch in this department.

cheers

fernando

Having owned the 5960p and the Dato (original)... I would have to say that it depends on your style and where you'll be wearing your watch.  Technically, I believe I would prefer the datograph up/down as the manual movement is truly awesome vs. the auto in the 5960p.   I would also agree that the 5170 is a better comparison, and having owned that one as well, I think I would choose the 5170 by a hair.  I know that I'm may be in the minority in the dato vs. 5170 shootout... but it's just personal preference.  As for the 5960p... well if your are a more casual and appreciate the non-traditional layout and the annual calendar function... then it's super.  I guess as they say... I was happy with each one but probably felt the twang of regret of selling the 5170j the most, then the dato, then the 5960p... but again... that's just me.

Good luck!

OpC

... you have to make. Both are real beauties. The PP has the advantage of the annual calendar, but I like the more classical chrono style 

these watches are different, IMHO.

I think Datograph's biggest opponent is Patek 5170.

If the question was 5170 vs Dato, I'd definitely go for 5170.

5960 is very nice and useful for daily wear.

Hard question, but you can't go wrong any of them.

I have the pleasure of owning both the Dato RG (original) and the 5960P Blue.

Great to see your post!  Was thinking you were a perfect person for such a post.  

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something dry about the dial of the dato. And the red power reserve is polluting the dial IMO.
Movement is good sure, but at this level, its not enough, you need some magic, or you are going to get bored of it
Plus 5960P got it ALL right

...if they made it in platinum for me, altough a nice one to add in the basket

but yellow or rose gold is a bit to dressy for me in that style of watches, just my 2c of course.

Nevertheless it was interesting  reading your responses so far !  pros and cons are taken into consideration