Independents

Should have typed it out more.
-Yes the Greubel Handmade 1 + 2 is what I was referencing. They are flawless under macro VS RW.
-Haldimann is less than RW but still well into 6 figures. But they are flawless.
-I don't really care if the flaws come from being hand made or not. I should explained this better in my OP, but I see a lot of people defending their poor quality by saying they are hand made, when they are not and when they don't stack up to other handmade pieces.
Overall, I feel like Smith would not be remotely as hyped if he hadn't worked for Daniels and done the whole documentary thing. The pricing is completely wacky now. I have no problem coughing up for watches, but the quality needs to be there! If comparing Smith to other pieces in the same price range that are also machine made like regular Greubel...he is nowhere close to them. Even production Breguet watches are better made - which have the same aesthetic.

Much appreciated.

This is a sentiment that is being shared more frequently among collector circles, albeit privately.

I have myself never seen a RWS watch in person and wasn’t expecting such a severe judgement. But having such a discussion is interesting.
Best, Emmanuel

especially his open work series 2 (or series 5, as it is called now). They are visually very appealing watches. But they are not handmade, not in the least, as many falsely assume. And there are many finishing flaws that can only be chalked up to either laziness or ineptitude.

Very interesting for me, as I was completely ignorant of everything you say.
I fully understand your disappointment.
Have a great weekend.
Best, Emmanuel

...to this day maybe the most impactful watch I've ever seen. I love his OLD stuff. The newer ones are not appealing to me...too well-finished...they don't look handmade...

Best, Emmanuel

For instance, they start their case making process with a nicely shaped and rounded metal that already looks like a case, vs a piece of raw and straight metal rod by Roger Smith. Besides, the HMs are double the price of RS despite a different handmade starting point (more hours needed to process that metal rod into a watch case).
Thanks to my AD, we have a small community of RS owners who gather, once in the presence of Roger himself to talk about watches. The owner of my AD has a collection of GD and RS watches. From a "quality" perspective, we could only opine there are haters who use the same image again and again to thrash the brand, because ours are good. We are coming from owners' perspective. I also personally know 3 other IG accounts, seasoned watch collectors, who are perfectly happy with their RS. RS doesn't make that many watches and we represent a good percentage of ownership experience.
Finally, RS uses CNC to drill holes into the case to ensure better water resistance for more precise gasket positioning. That to me is a sensible approach. There are independents who don't recommend washing our hands with their watches.

Here’s one from the first listing I pulled up. Look at the text on the right.

from any brand under magnification, even those made completely with CNC which is supposed to be perfect.

for balancing the discussion with the point of view of actual RWS watch owners.
I’ve personally never seen one of these watches in person and I wasn’t expecting at all such a controversy. Having such a discussion is very interesting and even more so if all the different points of view are expressed.
Best, Emmanuel

Roger has been making watches for a long time and watch collectors know him and his watches. He handmade his watches and utilizes CNC for precise punching of holes for fitting of gasket to minimize risk of moisture entering the watch. He is very public about it and it's a sensible approach. His watch service interval is 15 to 18 years and there is no point for collectors to send his watches back for servicing due to moisture much earlier than the 15-18 years' timeframe.
I'm pretty sure you have seen images of imperfections in CNC watches like Rolex, where hands are not completely covered in the right colour or characters on dial not printed properly, amongst others. Hence, why is a handmade watch expected to be perfect especially under magnification?

for providing all these details which help to clarify the situation.
Best, Emmanuel

I would suggest a possible reason is because Rolex (using your example) is a very large scale, industrially produced product numbering in (allegedly) the low million mark, while Roger makes very few watches a year. So when you make so few watches and charge such a high price for them, the QC should be that much better (since you are dealing with, by comparison, just a handful of watches) and closer attention paid to the product, to ensure easily spotted flaws are corrected before they are delivered.
I think it's fair to say you won't really see such flaws in Greubel Forseys, Ferdinand Berthouds or Haldimanns.
Just my opinion.
kind regards, kkwn98

but the Roger Smith that the hater posted has been sold like 10-20 years ago. Have we not seen oxidation/degradation on a watch's dial over time?

Having never seen one in person, it’s hard for me to tell how much I loved them. And I wasn’t expecting at all the controversy regarding the flaws and poor quantity of hand made.
Best, Emmanuel

Thank you for this lovely write-up and great selection of photos. Series 2 is on my dream list. Hopefully will get the opportunity!

I still have to see one of these watches in person someday.
And I wish the best for the acquisition of a Series 2!
Best, Emmanuel

Thanks Emmanuel for sharing this amazing post. Best, Alex