F.P. Journe

Curious to hear how anyone reading this might interpret my title above. 

clearly you enjoy them, that all it maters, right?

The Resonance though 😍

The “fun” however gets taken away from the Resonance when one is not a billionaire.

I believe you are viewing the Swatch collaborations through the correct lens.  Given this community, and the watches we all generally like, it is easy to see where much of the negativity comes from.  But Swatch / AP did not have us in mind as the target audience for this launch.

That was definitely one point of my post. And I personally get a lot of mileage and fun from a simple Swatch (not even getting to the MoonSwatch or these AP).
The other point was a comment on where certain indies and other watches sit now in terms of value. It’s hard for these to be fun anymore when they become something of material value. Or indeed when they become something that (regardless of the wearer’s intent) a signal for something socially.

Best, Emmanuel

But as a sneakerhead in my youth, and still hanging on to that a bit, the hype is not something I necessarily oppose.
Rather, it’s when that hype takes pricing to a level beyond the comfort of a regular guy some of the “fun” in the affected watches is taken away.

the watches you like are no longer affordable! 😊

My take is more cynical - They are exactly the same thing. One is fun for billionaires and the other is fun for everyone else. I would add on a layer that both demos are dominated by unsophisticated consumers so both are driven by brand / hype (fun?), neither by value, and it forces the market to sacrifice all the middle/value brands and customers. This isn't just a watch thing, it's everything.

If I were a billionaire then my view stated above re the Journes would indeed be different. Relatively, they would be my Swatch. And the “fun” would be unaffected or not compromised.

I’m not against hype, but I’m not particularly for it either—it doesn’t matter that much to me. That said, I do think it’s generally a positive thing, because it likely attracts a lot of new customers. People might initially be drawn in by so-called hype watches—whether that’s Nautilus, Aquanaut, or Royal Oak models doesn’t really matter—but for many, it’s a trigger to get started or at least to begin exploring the broader watch world.

If I go back about 35 years, I bought my first steel Rolex Submariner. I wouldn’t necessarily call it a hype watch back then, but it was certainly popular. Everyone starts somewhere. At the time, I thought it was the ultimate watch. I still think it’s a great piece today, though perhaps a bit more understated in comparison.

So yes, from a marketing perspective, hype is definitely not a bad thing.

To stay on topic, I do own some hype watches, including the Chronomètre Bleu by François-Paul Journe. I think it’s a fantastic watch, but honestly, it’s not among my absolute favorites. For that, I tend to look at pieces that are almost the opposite of hype. Breguet comes to mind—both now and for many years already, it has been one of the most interesting brands to me, and apparently it sits at the other end of the spectrum.

My rattrapante chronograph is probably my favorite watch in my collection. In addition, when I look at neo-vintage pieces—say from around 1990 to the early 2000s—I think of my Andersen Genève worldtimer chronograph. It’s a superb piece and about as far removed from hype as you can get. That said, I have noticed in recent years—especially over the last couple of years—that attention for Andersen has been increasing, and with it, prices on the secondary market.

So to sum it up: I think hype is good for the market. It’s not something I personally need, but it certainly has its place.

Pure marketing is generally defined as an honest way to represent a product and hype is seen a deceptive practice.

When all is said and done these are all discretionary, non-essential purchases and we all come at this from different angles. Given the production numbers of FPJ and the personal involvement of FP in allocation (possible due to the small numbers) control over boutique distribution is tighter than most brands.
I came across this article a while back with sums up the FPJ approach



My relationship with Journe came from a longer standing relationship with someone who joined one of their new boutiques who knew I was a long term collector. I had already purchased two Journe pieces in the secondary market (before prices went through the roof) and since then I have been allocated one piece for each of the past 3 years - QP, RN and elegante). Hopefully I’ll get a CO next year - but no guarantees and I’m always careful to send them photos of the special occasions for which the watches were procured and subsequently worn. They know that these are not “safe queens” and I’ve been happy to share them with prospective clients at the boutique - useful from their perspective as they don’t carry inventory of many pieces.

I think the AP Swatch collaboration is fine - not renting space in my head - and if it makes people happy - whether flippers or long term holders then who’s to argue. Doesn’t make me think any differently about my 15202 RO.

All in - I would still say I’m having fun with my FPJ experience 😊

It is good to report that article, this is my understanding of how allocations work too and the view held by the company as a whole.
For me, my quest of late has been to identify and purchase what I would consider an every day Journe.
If I were full time in HKG or TYO then my view on every day would be very different. But I am not, and these days these two watches I shared above do not fit the every day definition. That said, I do wear the CB more often.
Fingers crossed for the CO. It may be a watch for me in the future, but it is not the logical next step for my current Journe collection.

I was fortunate in that the Assistant boutique manger with whom I have the relationship in London I had known for some years and followed him through a few Richemont brands prior to his move to Journe. My first two Journes were purchased in the pre-owned marked - Rose Good Havana CS and 1st Generation Titanium Rattrapante - so I met the criteria for the boutique allocation (supporter of the brand in the pre-owned market with a buy/hold approach to ownership). Based on what I’ve read on this site it seems that access to allocations vary depending on the geographic location of the boutique and local demand. I’ve been extremely fortunate to this point but don’t take anything for granted.

Hype is fine, speculation is not, but that's unfortunately the main result of such a phenomena.

I asked my friend what advice he had to offer about the transportation dilemma. He immediately offered one of his many cars, a Honda Insight with ultra-high mileage capability in exchange for the watch.  Soon I was on the train heading towards my new rig, wearing the FPJ and carrying its boxes.



The swap was made and I drove home in the sporty little thing, with F1 technology, alloy body, etc. etc. while he sported a new gold watch.



The job lasted about 10 years, and eventually eighteen years and over one hundred eight thousand miles later, 

Well, the question is, how do you define „fun“?

As someone that really doesn't get caught up in hype or trends I follow the old golden rule of buying what I love and that I can comfortably afford at any given time. For me it is the hunt and discovery of something that is truly rare or special that drove me to find a new watch and love. Although as I head toward becoming an OAP tomorrow I really think my watch hunting and buying days are done and I am happy with the 5 watches I now have. That doesn't mean I still can't appreciate and love shiny new things but just from afar is all.

As far as swatch, I like swatch. I used to wear them. Now my 9 year old son has a couple. But I do not like these collabs. I think it cheapens the more serious brand. Bc the person wearing a plastic omega thinks (and says) that it’s an omega. No, it’s a swatch. The saving grace for me re the AP collab is that it’s not a wrist watch and that AP is donating all its proceeds to charity. Look, one can argue that swatch group saved the Swiss watch industry (to an extent). But a swatch is a swatch and AP is an AP.

I’m still getting a lot of daily pleasure from wearing my watches but since watch collecting became known to everyone and prices hiked it is less light hearted. I’m still wearing a Journe 5/7 days. I think some of your headline could have to do with context as well. I’m generally living in an environment where I don’t feel afraid or judged by what watch I wear. If I feel like wearing my Resonance - no problem.  Daily I still have a lot of fun with my ALL of my watches. I don’t have anything I don’t wear to the office or around town.

I’ve been into watches for about 30 years - a bug I caught from my dad. And I’ve seen trends come and go. I think sticking to what you love and appeals to you is what really matters. Everything is pontification (on my part). Harmless banter, really.

(Continuing with the somewhat provocative titles! LOL)
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts Christian. Myself, and I’m sure everyone here, value your input and perspectives.

I used to be able to wear any watch pretty much anywhere I would go. Watches was simply not a hobby in most people’s eyes and an expensive watch was a Rolex. I agree that the light heartedness was so much more charming. You and I have been fortunate with our lighthearted approach. I would love to say it was because we were incredibly smart but we were just very lucky. I think that’s the charm of life. Unpredictable. In terrible ways sometimes. But sometimes terrible good 😊