Arronax
5342
For me there are two critical points
One mechanical and one relating to aesthetics.
For the first one, a small movement may struggle to move large or long heavy hands for which it wasn't designed, generally not much of a concern with dress watches but dive & pilot watches could be a concern. It may also be difficult to have a powerful barrel in a tiny movement, although new materials or lower beat rates can help to some extent.
As for the second one, placement of the date window or the small second can betray the use of a small movement. Since I mostly gravitate around no-date watches and central second hands (or two handers), this is less of an issue. For example I take no issue with the small second placement on the PP 5196 but I believe many PP hardcore enthusiasts feel differently about it. A massive movement spacer ring can also be a show-stopper if seen through a sapphire caseback.
In closure as long as the above requirements are cleared I really couldn't care less. The 430MC movement in my Cartier Drive ultrathin is 2.1mm thick and 20.5mm in diameter but it is a joy to wind, only takes a few turns to a full charge and although I removed the caseback once out of curiosity (link here: www.watchprosite.com
) it is providing a tremendous amount of joy and pleasure.
) it is providing a tremendous amount of joy and pleasure.
As usual, hugely personal, your mileage may vary!
My question I hear a lot about how some movements appear too small for the case
But considering all the aspects of the watch itself, does it really make a difference? For me if a movement demonstrates appropriate accuracy with reasonable power reserve and outstanding finish Does it really make a difference ? I look forward to your co...
Tony, I fully agree with you,
especially when the case back is closed, and not sapphire crystal back.
It sometimes makes a big difference
If it’s a time only or three hands with central seconds, it’s fine. When you start adding date, chrono, calendar complications, the dial balance gets messed up with everything crowded into the center.
For me there are two critical points
One mechanical and one relating to aesthetics. For the first one, a small movement may struggle to move large or long heavy hands for which it wasn't designed, generally not much of a concern with dress watches but dive & pilot watches could be a concern....
Honestly, you hit the nail on the head. This whole movement size thing is bull 💩
Just adding, Patek 5970/5070 don’t have full size movements neither does this one: But I couldn’t give a …… ...
I don't think it's bull at all!
You've named two watches that are, in my view, HEROIC design work on the part of Patek to make a watch with a disproportionately small movement look great. The 5196P and the 5070 do more to demonstrate that this IS a problem than that it isn't, because th...
My friend each to their own 🙏🏽
Vintage collector from a long past era when I started collecting 35 years ago never gave it any attention. I guess I’m just from a different era 🤣 ...
I say that's because this problem was less common in the past!
(and usually, as I think your examples even show, less egregious) ...
I think that's right
You'd get brands upsizing the cases significantly while using the same old movements that had been designed to go in smaller cases. This probably both gave us collector-types a sense that there was a proper proportionality that had been given up (which th...
Two things have to be taken into consideration:
1) From the back : If there's a solid caseback, who cares about the size of the movement? If there's a see-through case back, the movement can look a little small if the case is much larger than the movement. 2) From the front : the size of the movement d...
Very good points. 5196 sun seconds is balanced for me because I never liked it cutting into the 6 position
But so many more prefer that cut six
Yes, it really depends on one's taste.
But at least it allows to clearly see the impact of a small caliber in a larger case.
I am in the “it depends” camp, as several people have pointed out above sometimes it doesn’t matter.
But perhaps as watch cases have gotten larger those times when it matters have become more common.
As others have said,this is only an issue for me if the dial balance is impacted.
But then it is a no-go for me !!
Dear Tony, this is a very interesting question!
I am definitely not in the “bigger is always better” camp. A small movement can be exquisitely made, reliable and technically superb. Still, I do believe (movement!!!) size matters. 😁 For me, it mainly comes down to visual HONESTY and mechanical INTENT. V...
I believe it does
The dial may look more jammed than would be otherwise and the back also looks out of proportion. In case the watch has just 2 hands and closed back - none of these would be seen of course.
It partially matters to me…
As mentioned by others the question is one of use case and balance. Like Arronax I don’t mind the small movement in the Cartier Drive Extra Flat as it is a two hander and has a solid case back. Watches that appear like they are highly myopic due to subdia...
If it works for you, great!
To me mostly(some exceptions), it ruins the proportions of the dial, a-la 5070 and 5970. It shows luck of effort…
For me ….
I feel this is a cop out from manufactures using old movements from when cases were smaller (luckily we are swinging back to smaller). Also I find that , in my head, there would be more robust movement if larger plates etc. Also, on an open case back I li...
Agree with a lot of comments around size being pertinent to intent and dial side layout. Would also add reliability...
I used to think it a bonus if the watch and movement were designed together and sized appropriately but these days reliability is more important to me than novelty. Would rather have a great movement that's been well proven over the years in a slightly ov...
My 2 cents….
Tony: Question for me is it represents a certain laziness to design a movement for a watch. If functional is all we want, not sure we need to pay the kind of money that we do pay. So I am ok criticizing small movements (particularly when it impacts the di...
As a personal guideline, solid caseback, time only, no problem 😁 but..
as others have pointed out, if it impacts dial layout like date windows for example then it becomes an issue.. why Im always on the fence with all iwc pilot after the mark XV. On the flip side, it is nice to see a DNA consistent movement like the Panerai ...
I dislike that pretty strongly
since it belongs to my idea of haute horlogerie that the movement fits the case and unless it is a two hander you usually do see it, despite design shenanigans, if brands make a larger dial for their established small movements. One repeat offender in thi...
Depends on the watch
If it's a watch where the dial is interesting, then I don't mind a smaller movement within reason. It does seem a little half assed sometimes though. Kind of like stamped hands on very expensive watches...