Kurt Behm
1141
I totally agree... the only thing that matters is if you like it.
Right now I'm wearing a watch a lot of people don't like, and find unattractive, a Linde Werdelin
Oktopus II Big Date. I actually have two... long story.
I love it and that's all that matters...to me.
I love the Lange you reference. I wish I still had my double-split.
Kurt
Why Do We Automatically Like Things That Are Hard To Get?
Ok. Let's admit it. When there's a long queue out of a restaurant... We assume the food must be reasonably good, right? Same thing with watches... It seems for most people, the longer the wait-list or the line, the more we want the product. So... When it ...
We just don't like to be told "no."
Maybe it starts from our childhood? When our parents told me I can't have that new LEGO set, since I already had a dozen LEGO sets... Maybe it's that kid-in-all-of-us? Now, I just have to have that LEGO. Now, replace LEGO with Rolex.
I think “we” depends…
We as Rolex buyers, PP buyers or Omega buyers? I am an Omega enthusiast not a “collector” and as a kickboxer I was pretty competitive. I don’t feel that way about possessions…I bought my Omegas for me…because I use them in many cases for their intended pu...
That's fantastic!
I don't think the vast majority of watch buyers and status seekers share your thoughts though. But here on WPS, I think we do have a big portion of people who buy things because they genuinely like it. Not to flaunt, not to invest, etc. But because we gen...
Exclusivity over rarity
We often say, “that model is hard to get” or “that’s a waitlisted watch”. We use these phrases because of the inflated grey market influences that have made these models exclusive by “price” or “relationship”, not rarity. If someone sees you wearing said ...
I agree! And you're not a snob!
Thank you for posting your thoughts. I'd say that many of the brands have lost a lot of integrity. But I'd also say that many clients are buying for what I consider the "wrong reasons" and that I can't blame the brands for capitalizing upon those clients....
I think we do.....But....
I would not buy them.... My current thoughts on the hot watches of the last couple of years….. PP Nautilus 5711. Looks OK but nothing special. I would be proud to wear one but not go out of my way to try and own one. PP Aquanaut 5167. Looks OK but nothing...
Very diametric views...
I'm not the competition neither. I'm buying things that are unpopular. I guess I'm almost a contrarian. But it seems what I choose often becomes popular a few years later. I wonder which pieces I am buying today will one day become the next Nautilus? Hmm....
I've always liked 'odd' things...in watches that means non-round cases...
...and brands that nobody ever heard of until they became icons. My problem has always been timing. Twenty-five years ago I was drawn to some of the most expensive watches (now) when they were cheap. But twenty-five years ago I was poor : )
I was poor 25 years ago too...
Timing is always the greatest thing isn't it? Just an amazing part about life.
You're a trendsetter!
You're a trendsetter Amanico. You buy what you like without care for logic. You're one of the few special people who bought a Montblanc Villeret! That makes you a true watch connoisseur! But why do sheep follow other influencers? And why are there so many...
That's a perfect quote!
I especially like "Sheep always want to eat good hay" as that is just so true! I just wished these sheep had more mind of their own. Why do they have to be so obedient and follow the same shepherds.
I hope these sheep consider the Bulgari Octo Finissimo...
Because those sheep will one day be unhappy and complaining when it's too popular and hard to get.
I love this tread, I really do, so I’m curious to learn the angles our friends will bring to this philosophical question;-)))
So here’s my humble view: Since you brought up Rolex, but as of late same phenomenon applies to most luxury items, cars, properties, clothes, restaurants, etc... It’s no secret I like Rolex, primarily because the product, the way they advertise “underprom...
It is indeed an interesting philosophical question...
Why does herd mentality exist? Does everyone else assume that others know better than they do? What's the logic behind herd mentality? Why do consumers feel so warm in herd mentality? Are they buying a product to fit into a club? Are they buying something...
We might regard this 'herd mentality' response as a form of rationality.
Suppose that there are 100 equally intelligent people, who've each had an equal chance at prior research, each choosing between two options, A and B. But they get to choose one after another, and observe one another's choices. I would feel I was in a much...
I really like your example! That's a very scientific way of looking at it...
And you're right! A lot of people, given that ability to see what other people are buying in sequence does indeed affect the total outcome. I really like your analogy, it brings up a very good point. The problem now is the last few people can't get what t...
Spot on, spot on, spot on…this is Marketing at its best…
Creating that sense of scarcity, hard to come by and making you feel you’re super lucky. I see too many posts in forums now with ppl say “Got the call!” Such techniques has influenced a lot of interest and businesses, helped grow the secondary market and ...
We shall see!
Agreed. Marketing at its best. But at what point do I say to those marketing companies, "I'm no longer a sheep, I want to make my own decision without outside influences?" Why aren't people doing that more often. We don't wear the same clothes... Yet why ...
There are also a lot of “emperor’s new clothes” phenomenon going on…
Lots of watch models that were ugly ducklings in the eyes of people back then suddenly becoming beautiful as hell 😅 I’m a conservative collector and I’m sticking to conventional brands/models to find watches that fills my collection voids.
A good strategy!
And well said. Emperor's New Clothes is a perfect descriptor for today's frenzy. And all those people peddling NFTs and Blockchain are often selling snake oil too.
Not Me
I'm happy to say I liked the Nautilus line when they were only somewhat hard to get, and when called still had a nice % off attached. I'm glad I got them when I did and they were affordable, before Instagram, and the price craze came along. But yes I see ...
Yup... Why?
Why will someone pay so much money for such a watch? Why? And I too am glad I got the Nautilus when I did. A little sad I didn't get the Royal Oak when I had the opportunity. Since I always liked it. But I'll live. But for that many people to all be wanti...
I know from a very reliable source
that the Louis Vuitton store in my town pays people to queue when the queue is not long enough. Silly world this is with too much dumb money floating around. I personally purchase watches I like and love regardless of the brand; but tbh I prefer the times...
REALLY? As a policy, that'd be very damaging if that word really got out...
If anyone ever went on record saying that, that they were paid to stand in line outside a LV store, that'd be very damaging for the brand.
yes, really - and some people know of this, but I don't think it will damage the brand in my town
you just look with different eyes nowadays at the queue ;-)))
I have heard that the secret to a new restaurant is to...
...limit the number of tables and always have a line outside, even if it's just your friends. There are a lot of lines in Tokyo for shops and food. We always joked that if there was a line then whatever it was must be good : )
Some good food for thought as usual Patrick, even if I'm pretty sure *nobody* here will confess, "Oh yes, these marketing tactics have been working really well on me!" ;-))
I'm no communications/marketing expert, but I've always been pretty good at IQ tests, so this just looks like to me a current twist of the good old phenomenon of marketing.... Sadly, whether we like it or not, it's a fact of life that companies spend coun...
You're right! So let me be the first to confess!
I have to admit, the past couple of years I've bought some products in a rushed decision due to the fact that I wasn't sure I was able to get it if I said no. And I realized, I bought watches I didn't love. And now I've got an even bigger horde of things ...
I'm pretty sure anyone, though to a varying degree, is exposed to the influence of market trends, including folks with your level of knowledge of the industry....it's just human nature, and alas, exploiting it is another VERY successful industry! ;-)
To give you perhaps the most extreme (and highly theoretical!) example in this sense, take any of the *many* collectors who last year (legitimately) expressed their disapproval of the 5711 version whose name may not be spoken --- a $53k watch that fetched...
A very good point you made there!
I might've actually refused it. That color is just so unattractive to me, that I probably would've said no. And if I had said yes, I would've had to buy a lot clothes to make me look good while wearing it. I will admit, there was once an Art Deco looking ...
I'll have to show you a picture of those Turquoise pants one day.
I'd probably be able to wear that strange color dial. But honestly, I'm not crazy about it. Then again, to say no when offered... That'd be almost a little rude to say no when offered something so special. So you're right, I'm not 100% certain I'd say no ...
Interesting discussion
If anything, I was guilty of the opposite early on in my watch collecting. I bought, not rare, but “iconic” watches that everyone liked and were easy to get. One each from AP, PP, VC. Speedmaster, Reverso, Rolex, etc, in pursuit of a well-rounded collecti...
Well said!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Unfortunately, those iconic watches from those brands are definitely becoming more and more recognizable in major cities across the globe. Even in the United States. All I can say is be careful! Lots of crimes surround...
I like the Daytona, but...
I still feel the same way I felt the first time (many years ago) I saw the Nautilus...UGLY WATCH. The only thing uglier (IMHO) is the Aquanaut. At my age, I don't stand or wait in line...Life's Too Short. I've had kind of the opposite experience. When I b...
You were definitely a trendsetter...
I was the same way. When I first saw the Nautilus watch as a teenager, I thought, "what a strange watch, it's got ears." And then one day, I tried one on, already biased that I wouldn't like it, and then I realized I liked it - it was a weird looking thin...
I totally agree... the only thing that matters is if you like it.
Right now I'm wearing a watch a lot of people don't like, and find unattractive, a Linde Werdelin Oktopus II Big Date. I actually have two... long story. I love it and that's all that matters...to me. I love the Lange you reference. I wish I still had my ...
There is a strong following of people who like LW timepieces!
Last month in NYC, I met a group of people who were adamant that I should try a LW timepiece. I still haven't, but there are definitely some devout fans! Double Split! You certainly like your watches big!
Judging by the pieces that I have, you can definitely say that I don’t fall in that category :-p
I mean, who the hell would line up for an Air King For a number of us here, horology is quite the solitary pursuit outside of WPS. And it’s great that we don’t have that hype sickness here in WPS. Gotta commend the mods for making this forum a relatively ...
Thank you for your kind words! We try our best!
We try our best to avoid discussing the subject about values and investment. And we try to stick to true appreciation and a slight technical inclination for watches. And people do line up for Air Kings nowadays!
one thing i would never do is to pay above retail price for a watch... ok, there was an exception when i bought the vintage Omega Bullhead about a year ago... hehehe
i must admit though that given the current state of the market, i have bought a few pieces where i was not given "enough" time to consider, the most recent being the Cartier Tank Chinois. I like the watch, but have never bothered to try enquiring, as i ha...
Well said...
"The watch chooses me rather than the other way around." Well said! It's a different time! So many people were thinking this is their only chance to own something special. You only live once. You could die of COVID tomorrow. Etc. People who made some mone...
haha... if i buy only if i can't live without it, then frankly, i wouldn't have bought any
it's a hobby and so, the decisions are never life and death 😅 ok ok, I've taken your statement too literally i guess 😂 I'm really thankful to have this forum where i can share my hobby without being judged
And this forum is very thankful to have you as a part of it!
This forum wouldn't exist without its members!
A great thread; I think it is the materialistic nature in us all, to start with. A Casio will tell the time. But we want more - in my view a first world problem created by the marketing strategists. It would be logical to eradicate global poverty first
before buying multiple time pieces. But we are all human and do what feeds our needs. A bit heavy I know, and I am as bad as anyone!
You are very right!
With the wealth we have, we could re-prioritize it to solve other problems. With the military defense budget of most countries, we could probably solve world hunger many times over. We'd probably create a lot of inflation though - if everyone became somew...
As long as there is darkness in the human heart
Then both evil men and good men will be armed.
You're right!
I just read a book politics. We all know about the politics of governments but we sometimes forget (at least I forgot) that there's another section about the politics of military and how military budgets are fought back and forth by generals who differ on...
You have once again raised a very interesting question dear Patrick
I often find them interesting to think about for a while and when I study the comments they also are food for thoughts. As for me this time you remind me of that when I was a young man I was taught that when everybody tells you to look left it is better t...
You're a wise man...
It is indeed sometimes the correct strategy to be a contrarian in certain cases. While the world is obsessed with Daytonas and Nautiluses; maybe I should go buy some really special one-of-a-kind pieces which definitely have more intrinsic value in the lon...
I think it is a certain type collector, that likes to collect, what other people can't get
These collectors all have the RO with a salmon dial, the Nautilus, the Daytona with an Ice Blue dial, and lately, they all have a custom order Crash, and now they are all getting the Pebble. It doesn't reflect their taste, it is just a 'look at me' collec...
You are definitely onto something!
You're right! People want the "hot" things just so they can say they have it. And it does indeed poison the hobby.
Great post and feedbacks.
One more point if I may add is the fact that these are considered "parking lots" for money. I see so many "added to the collection" watches that in other times no one would buy just because its hard to get and keeps the money. Just as an example look at t...
You bring up a HUGELY good point!
Yes. Watch collecting is easy entry and easy exit. You can buy some watches. And you can sell some watches. The barriers to selling aren't that difficult neither. Very good point. We're all going to get hurt from these people who leave now... Fortunately ...
You’re correct :-)
I’ve been into the hobby long enough, and, unlike an investment, for me I just felt lucky if I was able to bring home lets say 75% of what I paid (if I wanted to sell something).. . I see the current “new” market situation as an opportunity for us members...