ocwatching
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The acceptance of fakes...
Jack, thank you for your observations and report.
I can only comment on my own personal experience from having family members and close family friends that live and work in China. Many are successful in business and live in the trophy house with the nice import cars. They travel the world and would not blink at a large purchase of $25K USD for a Hermes bag or diamond jewelry.
However, when they sign on the dotted line for the charge slip, what is on their wrist? Its a very good quality fake Chopard watch.
Yes, they do own the real diamond Rolex (in the safe). However, they would proudly tell you that the Cartier/Chopard that they are sporting runs like a champ and was bought for thousands less. I think it comes down to the acceptance of the fakes in the chinese market and the weird psychology that they can get the "look" of the expensive timepiece without the expense. They also seem to enjoy the hunt of buying very good fakes at good prices. They see watches as more fashion than "timepiece."
Just interesting observations on my end...
A follow up on China ... and their taste for haute horlogerie
In January last year I wrote a post asking " if China would meet the market expectations of the top makers". My conclusion at that time was .... "I think not" ....a lot of potential.... but a big culture change was needed... along with a better crime rate...
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Hi, I have been a lurker here, but its interesting subject that you brought up. Since I currently reside and work in China, Shanghai, and did seen a few good watches, here is my take. Currently the market in China for fine time pieces are still in its inf...
Hi kelwatches... thank you for your reply
Hi and thank you for your reply. It has always been the argument that China is a numbers game.... and the number of high net worth individuals is plenty. The question is will the numbers who have the interest ..... match or exceed the combined past intere...
Doh! I broke my own rule...
of reading all posts in a thread before jumping in with my own response. Sorry about that! Do your rhetorical question - yes, the numbers and sales are there already, beyond just 'indicators." Western observers and journalists seem to vacillate between "a...
hmmm...as I read through the rest of the thread, my concerns are confirmed.
"...but I do care about what others take away from reading the forums, mine or others comments, intended or not." Cheers, TM
But then again...
If you go to any watch boutique in hong kong, it was the Mainland Chinese that were buying. Strange indeed. Cen@jkt
In singapore as well
Well you see that in Singapore as well, esp in the duty free section=p (yes I am a Singaporean) I think watches are like wine, cars, music and other finer things in life, it takes time and effort to appreciate the 'acquired taste' I am far far from being ...
Point of order about PuristS' Watches and Money
kelwatches, Thanks for your observation about watch culture in Shanghai. I note your "sign-off" statement that you are "not a purist" based on the price of your watches. Not true...being a PuristS community member is NOT about the price of your watches bu...
yes, that was indeed a compelling motivation when the ABR was conceived and
executed. I'm not sure how many people got it, or how many people care? Or worse, how many people were actually turned off, as watch snobs, by the idea? (sigh) TM
apt
Hi I still enjoy one of my collections which is well within reach to many, no one would wink when they chanced upon one and decided to buy it. And how apt is to post a pix of one of my favourite watches associated with a rich history, especially this year...
Great picture, great watch. Question:
Hi Mech, What is your formula for "right price based on its worth?" Some would argue that the history is worthless (or at least inconsequential) and that you can get a similarly robust and possibly even more accurate chronograph for half the price (or les...
+1! I couldn't agree more Mech.
Too many people think if you are into watches then you should have Patek, AP or any of high-end brands as most associate money with the hobby. Real watch lovers don't really care much about prestige, he could be buying a n Omega Seamaster after purchasing...
thomas and rel
some answers to your queries and some to the general observation from the original poster: I do own some pateks, lange etc but when I say I like them all I LOVE THEM ALL. When I bought them, I've done fair amount of research, price included though not alw...
Well, if I may assume that
Jack went to Shanghai, I always looked around and never ever (even w/ my wife next to me) walked straight in Shanghai. So many pretty pretty beautiful girls and god bless me for giving me a pair of good eyes . Yes indeed, look around when you walk in Chin...
Mech, I think we are in complete agreement on all the abstract points...
but that gets us no closer to the FUNGIBLE equations and guidelines that will help others who are either newbies, or who "don't get it." Maybe we should try to avoid such leading terms as "right price..." and "worth" in public discussions. Of course, this...
I like your idea
of using Intrinsic value on a watch.... in one of the things I spend most time doing, the extrinsic value matters alot more too. I prefer to apply extrinsic value to a time piece too. Now, applying both intrinsic and extrinsic values to buying a watch mak...
I think
you are unfortunate not bump into anyone or notice from far branded watches on the wrist as Kelwatches said those branded has done their ground work before setup shops there as described by Cen, mainland Chinese are big spender in HK and all major shoppin...
interesting post, but doesn't make me feel like...
... going to china ) Very surprise that among 1.3 billion ppl and so many millionaires, u couldnt find more ppl wearing nice watches especially in 5 stars hotels. How?? Can't get it... Thanks for the post, felt like i've been there now Karim
Jack this is an interesting and surprising observation
it is surprising as from the experiences i have had people of chinese origin in other countries(UK mainly) have a love of all things bling and electrical. they love bold watches as much as they love the best phone. for a short while many years ago i worke...
The acceptance of fakes...
Jack, thank you for your observations and report. I can only comment on my own personal experience from having family members and close family friends that live and work in China. Many are successful in business and live in the trophy house with the nice ...
At the risk of coming across like a self-appointed apologist for
China and its nascent market for luxury products (and European brands) - while I do see and have personally experienced all the specific points being shared in this thread, I have to ask - who among us hasn't experienced this in other markets as well, inc...
Very interesting post..
I really enjoyed reading your insights. One point however is that whenever I travel on business I tend to wear a beater watch most of the time and keep a nice one for meetings, business dinners or social gatherings if so needed. Maybe thats why you didn't...
All comments well noted, and well understood. But caveat...
Hi, Jack, Be careful of generalizations. Like stereotypes (wait, stereotypes are generalizations, just usually loaded with tons of personal baggage! ) generalizations are ... inherently wrong, in some specifics. Sorry, just the nature of the beast. But ye...
Any country with extreme levels of poverty vs wealth...
...Is going to have these issues. As much as being a participant on this forum is somewhat about the love of expensive brands of watches, I love how the notion of being a "purist" can more importantly, be absolutely relative to ones own world. "One man's ...
Jack, have you checked Super Luxury Night Club in China?
I believe that will answer why so many brands would love to open a boutique in China. Regards Ling
Hi Ling, Re your question...
Hi Ling, Re your question I am not sure what you mean by 'Super Luxury Night Clubs'. I did visit some Clubs which had joining fees that would buy a very nice Breguet.... but they were not night clubs. I was a guest in some homes that were around the $ US ...
Do you think that the more expensive boutiques...
... are more designed for out-of-the-country visitors?
I don't know... but wages are cheap
Hi, I really don't think they are for visitors. They are well staffed and at a cost much less than anywhere else. if you were a watch maker / seller you would have to give China a try, if not for optimism, then because it is better to have your stock in a...