Jay (Eire)
12581
Of course Mike, and thanks for letting the post stand (so far!).
We only have the information you mentioned.
So setting aside the speculation, to which all auction results are subject, does this outcome relative to those that came before it mean something significant to our little world of collecting?
Does it mean something significant for RR or indies more broadly?
Does it mean as BigAppleBill suggested above that the watch auction market is still relatively healthy (something we all want I think, healthy not exuberant).
There are many interpretations (maybe speculations) of this result. That’s really what I wanted to tease out.
A single swallow, or a real sign of a great summer ahead?
I realize we don’t talk about prices here, but from time to time we do discuss auction results (a lesser evil than used/gray prices). This one merits some exposure and discussion I think. Earlier today in HK this RRCC01 from Rexhep Rexhepi brought US$ 922...
I was at the Phiilips auction in Geneva 10 days ago
but I must say that this result has set the standard since a Rexhep Rexhepi Chronometre Contemporain has succeeded in achieving a higher price than a Dufour Simplicity and a RW Smith Series 1, comparable time only watches but not so comparable when it com...
One of my questions was did this set a new standard.
And it seems that is how you are viewing the result. My other suggestion was did this set the standard in terms of the new generation taking over the old? So not a specific comment / observation re price but more so a changing of the guard.
I see
Well to me it is quite strange that there should be a change of the guard as Dufour's watches are generally acknowledged to have the best Swiss finishing followed by possibly Kari so for me, to see Rexhep leap frogging them both in terms of auction result...
No matter how much I like this watch…. This is just utterly stupid !!
Great watch and unfortunately didn’t buy it about 5 years ago when they were for sale between 55 and 60k But today close to 1 million ? That’s absolutely ridiculous And I don’t t like it at all ! This is so far from passion and collecting, look at IG now ...
That is my sentiment too Bruno.
I am just unsure of the dynamic here and wondered whether or not this was a true result or a choreographed one.
I think its a one time result because its the first time one comes to a public auction.
It all depends if there will be others for sale in the near future or not .
I agree.
I really like the RRCC, but I don't get these insane prices. It's a three hand watch. A beautifully finished three hand watch, of course, but still... Paying 3x retail for a 16202 seems more than sensible compared to this. The independent scene is just li...
I would not at all trust this result and I am becoming
more and more suspect at these auction houses and how these results are derived at. I feel that there is a lot of market manipulation going on and when one sees a result like this . . . well, you be the judge.
Respect
Pease at least respect the watchmaker he is phenomenal nobody wrote about market manipulation when dufour brought top dollars and then dufour made another 20 to sell for his retirement funds Phillips had a lot to lose if is any possibility to be true
I don’t see anyone implicate the watchmaker.
I think everyone here appreciates what RR has tried to do and the watches he has produced. Regarding Defour, one difference I would note is that he had auction history, many watches had changed hands prior to the current production. Also, did anyone say t...
Imagine this for a scenario
You buy up 4,5,6 Of these pieces In RG and platinum You put in an auction- you and your friends bid up the watch, you might even get a genuine bidder caught in the hype- you bid up so the it has a million price tag If you’re really lucky someone been dupe...
It's your choice, of course, but...
...I don't get how the speculation game of multimillionaires could be the reason why you stop collecting. Maybe I'm missing something.
This sadly actually does make sense
Although the fees would be more around 300k (you pay both the buyer’s premium + the seller’s fee). Add the initial price of the two watches 70k each. Round it to 450k total cost and you end up with 2 watches “worth” a million each…not bad. Risky but a pla...
Too much to lose
Again I will say nobody wrote that when dufour was putting on auction extra 20 pieces
You need to separate this from the watchmaker.
Nobody is slighting the watchmaker here. Re the money laundering or simply avoidance of currency restrictions; these have been a subject of discussion as it relates to auction results for many years.
The industry worked together to achieve a great result
Watches are not so different from the art world now, but the final figure is just huge. Mr. Rexhepi had already been proclaimed THE young watchmaker when the Chronometre Contemporaine was released a few years ago. Now he has a massive auction result to ba...
This is another viewpoint and a wholly positive one.
Rising tide lifts all boats. No question that RR is one of the perceived stars of the new generation. His success, or lack of it, would have a direct impact on those of his peers that follow his route to independence. So good results are good for all in t...
I agree. The new new is cool and all, but experience means something. Everyone is so excited to get in early on the future next hottest things they've experience, history, brand, all of it goes right out the window.
It's great there's opportunity for a lot of new watchmakers and no doubt the RR watches are amazing, but newbs coming out of school making their first watch at Voutilainen prices is nuts. People are paying them so maybe I'm just old and cheap but if the m...
What if nothing untoward happened in this auction
and the price paid and bidders are all genuine. We are watch collectors who know a value of a watch. Unfortunately, there are many out there who do not or who might be so filthy rich that it would be more important to win a bid at any price. I understand ...
I think I’m OK with the disconnect in certain cases.
When something is really special, really rare, then perhaps it’s OK to have big big numbers. But those are limited circumstances, there are not so many truly special watches.
I'm impressed by the high bid, but not surprised.
After all, we've seen a Tiffany 5711 go for much more, albeit for charity. And we've even seen a set of novelty vinyl FP Journe dolls & toy watches go for an outrageous sum. Mr. Rexhepi has been celebrated as the new darling of the independent watch w...
Many valid points here Bill.
The one regarding RR’s allocation policy is well taken. This was apparently only the second CC to change hands, the other was sold not at auction. The production numbers were very small and for most I would assume these were watches that hit a particular ...
I'd take it with a grain of salt.
Sometimes these things don't really change hands at those prices. There are auctions that are just for show. If it truly changed hands at that price, then all I can say is two people really wanted something way more than they should've. And either those b...
Facts are…
1. It is undoubtedly a VERY beautiful watch (and I kick my *ss for not having ordered one on time just because I love it and nothing else). It’s not the first time that it happens, now the train has gone and I enjoy seeing this watch when I have the oppor...
Of course Mike, and thanks for letting the post stand (so far!).
We only have the information you mentioned. So setting aside the speculation, to which all auction results are subject, does this outcome relative to those that came before it mean something significant to our little world of collecting? Does it mean some...
These small independents have since become from appreciation of great work to groups of dedicated "collectors" (like Venture capitalist, hedge funds) supporting IPOs (Independent watchmaker)
I'm not touching them, am happy just sticking to traditional brands. I don't need very super black polishing on the movements at the back of my watch. PP and Lange is good enough for me in this hobby. I know they are now like Artists, and they have specia...
Well, in complete agreement here.
Actually, as of late I think all this finishing craze is nothing more than snobbery. The whole watch hobby is like cancer, manipulated by preowned dealers, auction houses, and influencers, who always seem to find the next great thing… Daniel Roth, Franck ...
Bonkers price. Seems suspect based on the price alone.
I'm sure most of the current owners would be happy to resell at $1M or let's say $750K net of fees. My guess is there won't be bidders at that price, but there would be many sellers. And that will demonstrate how the $1M price is likely fiction. The scena...
I don't understand this at all
I find it quite puzzling how certain independent, time-only watches, like those from Dufour, demand such high prices. What makes them so special? Is it their polish and finish? Honestly, I'm not as impressed as others seem to be. Sure, hand finishing migh...
Christian, 100% re your last point.
And I believe 90% of the community here follows that approach. That is something which differentiates this place from other forums. Long may it continue. To your initial point I think I was getting at a similar thought in some prior posts when I spoke abo...
My perspective
The independents met a demand that the great historical brands are not prepared to meet. Collectors want easy-to-wear Calatrava type watches, with the rarity and craftsmanship equal to a Patek Grande Complication. For this privilege, they were willing to ...
market fro Independants is currently crazy No doubt But this CC was a limited edition od 20 made It is not the " regular " CC from Akrivia but no doubt this will lift all CC prices
As regards the current market , it is very difficult to see where it lands up. I think there are now two or three levels of collecting 1. Us regular guys 2. Very high end pieces with superb condition and provenance eg the Milgaus recently sold at Phillips...
Interesting...it's the only word that comes to mind
I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, it's validation by the masses of Rexhep's work. Of course enthusiasts were well aware of this several years ago. On the other hand, this will help to fuel this phenomenon of speculators who want in at all cos...
Agree, a rising tide raises all...
...and to be fair it also ups what is true handcraftsmanship. Some brands and 'independents' have been resting on their laurels. The old 1960s "Holy Trinity" is dead. Been saying that for quite some time. Long live the New Flesh 😎
As an entrepreneur...
I love seeing small businesses like his do well. As a watch enthusiast, it kind of sucks being priced out of some watches to an extent, but overall, it seems like independent watchmaking is in a much better place for founders of these businesses than it w...