Dje
7532
Well that's even worse for me
Hi Bruno,
If they created a specific reference number for this calibre in this watch, it is possibly because they had never used it before.
I don't care honestly with what can have been written in brochures before or after the sale of the watches. I care about what a brand like Panerai that pretends itself "Haute Horlogerie" can do in full disrespect of its customers. That you bought the watch doesn't mean you read a brochure!
A brand of "Haute Horlogerie" level can't use such a crudely finished calibre, let me call that a piece of crap, as it is contrary to the FHH statements, to the High Horology traditions, to the communication made for years by Panerai.
It is not a mistake IMO, it is a fault! They did it intentionaly to save money. As Nicolas pointed out all watchmakers at Panerai casing the calibers can be all blind and not see the state of the calibre they had in hands, so they were cased deliberately.
Furthermore they were even quite probably ordered from ETA deliberately in that state. You don't really think that Panerai gets calibres from ETA, disassembles them, refinishes them and assembles again. I'm pretty much sure Panerai orders and receives finished and assembled calibres from ETA and cases them in the state they are received. ETA is able to finish calibres and brands them with the names of the companies ordering them. That's exactly what they ask not to have to do anymore, ETA asks to sell calibres only branded ETA. If you want to do some work on your calibres yourself, you could order kits and then finish them, but AFAIK Panerai has only very recently had a capacity to do that, when they became (supposedly) a manufacture.
Don't take me wrong, I have no interest for Panerai as a manufacture. I like their simple watches with ETA calibres like the Unitas 6497. That's exactly what Panerai is for me. If they want to be a manufacture and sell more expansive watches that's OK for me but I'm not interested. If at the same time they cheat on customers and case crap outsourced calibres it's a shame, a fault, and such action should have consequences.
That's such consequences I'm asking for.
Dje
ps: if you want to think that a 2900 euros watch can be collectible because it contains a calibre we would not accept in a 300 euros watch it's your right, but honestly you should open your eyes and double check!!
This message has been edited by Dje on 2011-11-12 10:44:22
Has Panerai still its place in the realm of High Horology and inside the FHH after the 318
Hi, I seriously ask: Do you think Panerai still has a right to be part of the Federation de la Haute Horlogerie after the reference 318 scandal? How a company that shows as much disrespect to customers and collectors could be considered high horology? Who...
Very easy for me!
I never believed Panerai. In my opinion the brand has lately been just one of those Fashion Phenomena. They come and go... Best, Kari
Sorry Moses and Kari .... but still calling it a fashion brand ?
10 years ago this might have been acceptable but today I think it's unfair to call Panerai a fashion brand. To answer your and Dje his question ... YES Panerai belongs to the top watch brands. No way I would compare it wit a Patek , Lange, VC or similar b...
Just a question:
Are the inhouse really 100% inhouse to the same level as inhouse movements of i.e. Patek and JLC? I mean 100% designed by Panerai, 100% manufactured by Panerai? Best, Kari
Dear Bruno
with all due respect as admirer of your straight forward and honest, from heart speaking I must say that personally I find it very hard to put Panerai in same league with IWC moreover JLC GP or UN more like league of Rolex Breitling Omega and Tag. Panerai...
I have to agree.....
with you. I also do not believe Panerai (at its present stage) can aspire to be inserted in the echelons of horology. But I also belive that Panerai is more a...state of mind...than a precision's tool. More of an historical reference than a horological on...
By fashion brand
I mean that Panerai isn't about craft. It's about a recognised look, big size, etc. even their in house movements are largely machine assembled and decorated, like Omega, Rolex, etc. To me the term HH means craft
He he Bruno
I was searching for these posts to send them to you regarding your answer ( Is there something wrong with the 318 ? ) then I found you on this post. I'm a huge admirer of Panerai myself, but only a beginer my friend, I'm am still learning about this singu...
With their current reputation, the 318 scandal is just intolerable.
It is plain ignorant and shaddy for them to be stirring such issues. At least i preception towards Panerai has now changed a lot. And yes, too much hype has been going on with their brand and watches.
Strictly no I guess
look at the norm specified by SHH http://www.hautehorlogerie.org/en/fondation/about/manifesto/ http://www.hautehorlogerie.org/en/fondation/about/manifesto/product/ on the other hand when I see brands like Beaume & Mercier, Hermes, Van Cleef & Arpe...
Whereas Yes or No, The Group has its place
PANERAI is born as a military secret, it was born out creative desire to ameliorate visibility and waterproofing at a time when those issues were serious problems when time was needed under-water. 'G.P.F.' was a creative and determined, he therefore succe...
Just to avoid any confusion, POY ...
When you mentionned one of the contracted enginner " AB ", you spoke about Alessandro, not Angelo. Thanks for this historical background, it is an important detail of the discussion. Best, Nicolas.
Can you blame Panerai?
After all, hordes of aficionados were always clamouring, begging,queueing,paying crazy premiums for their basic models with a simple Unitas movements, albeit an LE perhaps. It was never about fine finishing as most regard it as a toolwatch with cult statu...
I sort of agree with you, but what bothers me
is that here on the PAM 318 it clearly shows that Panerai has not even bothered to engrave the company name on the movement, but proudly specified it as an PANERAI OP II, and also as OP XXIX see link: panerai.watchprosite.com 0 However they specified it l...
but
"If someone had not open the case-back, they would continue cheating?" The watch was made 2.5 years ago, and this makes it imo strange. Like I said before, if they used that OP XXIX in 10.000 watches (41x, 366, 005, ...) than it would be a huge scandal. B...
but, une fois more
1. How do you know there is no more than 150 pieces? 2. With all their claimed controls, 150 pieces were checked for quality control and off to the market, claimed COSC certified? the COSC certification alone is an enormous issue here, I am sure the COSC ...
Allei, POY... The COSC thing is major compared to the Panerai con...
NOW, I would be very interested to have an official statement from COSC about the certification of those movements, as they ( the movements ) should be identifiable to receive the COSC... Unless Panerai is frauding more than we know.... As they would have...
you are spot on! what do you have in mind
when saying 'further to my east'? China or India? ;-)
Aaah, you read in my mind now: The " Drawers Connection "? :) [nt]
No message body This message has been edited by amanico on 2011-11-12 05:03:15
some answers
1. How do you know there is no more than 150 pieces? Because they did not cheat with the movement. It was unacceptable that they used the XXIX if you knew what a XXIX was. But look at all their references and the only PAM with the XXIX is the PAM318 2. Wi...
2 fois more, you are not constructive! here for your COSC
Read this and tell me what you cannot understand... As for what I know you are right, you know much more. Enjoy your wear....
no, no
that my friend was published after all the 318 were sold This is from the catalog (limited editions) printed in 2010 .... 318 were sold early 2009 The thing in the catalog is indeed wrong, probably a print error but in any case nobody bought the 318 in 20...
if you read my posts you would notice I re-pointed Anthony TSAI post April 2009
So to me OP II or OP XXIX it is here the same, only whatever is inside is by far to be expected! If you can undertsand me, that's ok I do not need you to.
Well that's even worse for me
Hi Bruno, If they created a specific reference number for this calibre in this watch, it is possibly because they had never used it before. I don't care honestly with what can have been written in brochures before or after the sale of the watches. I care ...
Yves now, I am very disappointed...
Since you are on this brand, I mean since close to twenty years, you know that since 1997, you have to keep in mind the way the OP marketting behaves with their communications. In reading 150 pieces for this Limited Edition, they didn't say how many times...
RMLOL, well they are 150 people that have been once again let down
that is all that matters. As for that 'engine' in that watch, well I am sorry to say I rather buy a Seiko or even Vostok who go far and offer much more for a fraction of that PAM COST. I think it is best to rest this case right here, unless some parties w...
My thoughts
I would not categorise Panerai as just a fashion brand. Their big watches have led the way for every brand to increase the sizes of their watches.They are IMHO not an overnight sensation doomed to decline as many had predicted. Bruno correctly mentioned a...
318 was announced April 29, 2009 , NY boutique opened in December 2008
If Panerai waited 5 months, they could have waited a few more to engrave the movements. Plus More 318s were sold out of BH so it was really not a NY boutique edition. Do not remember the exact date of release but on 6/23/2009 I was contacted by the boutiq...
while they are not in the league of patek, AP, vc ect. I thought
They were going to close the gap but with this its going to take some gloss of their reputation among serious watch collectors. I for one went for a Pam that was a clear back with a reputable zenith heart instead of a unitas. Guess that's make me rest eas...
My thoughts
Very big mistake on their part, and it is fraud to me. I read the reply from one of the staff saying that it does not affect the quality and thought that was an irresponsible answer. I think people should try popping the backs of other panerai models.
My Thoughts on Your Thoughts
If this was truly a mistake, it can't be fraud. For fraud to be fraud, it has to be intentional/premeditated. By definition, a mistake can't be intentional and therefore can't be fraud.
No.
As a buyer who can only select a few pieces this is extremely damaging to the brand. It is shameful. I would feel like a fool to be wearing this watch.
No. ...
Being a cool looking “fashion” brand is what’s allowing modern times OP to strive toward HH, but IMO they will never achieve this. Being a fashion brand is their niche and has been good for their bottom-line. Of course original vintage O...
I don't think it matters honestly.
I never understand the purpose of being in a association other than if you are small and you need support or gather other as a clan and fend of competitor. Both scenario don't apply to OP. Richemont is a huge group. I'm sure OP would not get thrown out. A...
Its very disappointing to read all this..
I bought my first panerai PAM 164 in 2004 and the 2nd PAM 312 in 2009... I got rid of the 312 cause it would sometimes stop within a day although its supposed to have a power reserve of 72 hours... Was considering getting a PAM 372, but no way I am gonna ...
I ordered a PAM338 and it never showed up...
... does Panerai have problems or are they just arrogant? The 318 situation is very difficult for them to explain I think. No Panerai for me after all this! Best, Rob.
Hard to understand why...
Initially it was just upsetting to see, then the questions popped up as to why they would do it. To save money? It'd save so little in comparison to this bad press. If we think they are a fashion brand (i don't) then this is exactly what they should avoid...
A possible explanation - were the 318s developed and assembled in NY?
Come to think of it, I wonder if the NY boutique suggested this to headquarters, t aking it upon themselves s to assemble the 150 318s in NY . That might explain why this slipped any form of checks and quality control back in Switzerland or Milan. I just ...