Mark in Paris
[Purist]
10488
Great feedback
Yes Breguet numerals have been applied on several dials and I had the same thoughts at the beginning. Wouldn't it be better to keep them rarer?
Well, these are, I think, some elements to think about:
- First, they are beautiful and make the watch better (if you like them of course). So, if you get a watch with Breguet you'll be happy. If you think you will see too much of tehm in the wild, then I think one can be reassured as we don't see Pateks in the wild really (except maybe in some specific layers of the society? So it will not be seen everywhere.
- The thing is that we, collectors/fans/1-ref-owner etc, spend quite some time analyzing and viewing posts and pictures many times a week. Thus the impression to see them very much concerns a smal percentage of the client or potential client pool. People not coming on forums won't notice that point and will just pick the watch the retailer will chose for them (with understanding their needs/tastes). So, it may be normal not to base a strategy on our specific sample.
- Finally, there are times when some decorative element are pushed forward and we can imagine (just a thought) that Patek wants to make akind of period that, in several years from now, will be identified as the "Breguet numerals Pateks". It has to last for maybe 10 years (not too much). If we realize in 10 years or more that the years 2010-2020 were the years of the Breguet numerals and that's it, it may remain, in the end, not that frequent to have available on the market.
From a very long time, Patek Philippe has mastered style, timelessness, elegance, refinement and discretion. I'm sure we can find mistakes f course but the overall picture seems very satisfactory to say the least.
Yes, we all would have loved the 31-260, I'm sure it will come but it could have been really nice. This being said, we sometimes don't realise how good the 240 is... so it is natural to be attracted by the 260 (as I am) but not that necessary in a way to feel disappointed imho.
I'm eager to see the World Time references (both) in the metal and see how they look but yes, the guilloché, hands and lugs seem very appealing. And if you're looking for a WT, you'll certainly find "something" in the previous generations 5110 and 5130/31. We have time to check that 
Yes you were right about the WT Chrono. Foversta told me 2 months ago that it was also something we were already hearing about during the last 4 years (I didn't :p ) .
The 5396 is not what we see at first sight but something we tend to progressively appreciate very much (at least I do) as time goes buy. Very nice evolution. The Tiffany had an upside down moonphase, leaf hands which is quite differnt in addition to the black dial so really not a close sister but a very different version of the same model.
I'm also very curious to see how the grey dial will look like. I just realized what you meant about the diamond folding clasp and this is indeed very "unsusual". I have the French MSRP (43 540 €) which has not moved since previous version so I wonder if this is not a mistake in the caption? To be confirmed.
Tries are nearly the best part! Please share your opinion when done, it will be interesting reading
I will continue posting with press kit pics until I make my own shots in 1 month or so.
Thanks for your very detailed and informative feedback!
Cheers, Mark
[Baselworld 2016] The Patek Philippe novelties have been released
Gentlemen, Over these past few weeks, we've eagerly been waiting for that moment when Patek Philippe will unveil its 2016 novelties, and now here they are. The rumors conveyed that several references could receive quite significant changes this year. At t...
Once again; thanks Mark
I am very disappointed as the first reaction. Not much steel, not much platinum. However, I think the major issue is that there is very little anything that would be really new. But more comments when we discuss each watch separately. Best, Kari
Materials
Not much steel indeed. I think it is a very rare material for Patek concerning classical pieces (not talking about Nautilus or Aquanaut lines of course). You had strong points to favorize 1 or 2 in steel this year but I didn't really feel the necessity an...
Yes and no.
I would not like to see each and every reference in platinum but a bit more; not only in the most expensive references. What comes to steel, it's in many ways a better material than white gold or steel. And more affordable. I have been waiting for new mov...
It will be a consolidation year for you, waiting for the Nautilus (possible) event
I agree with your "mechanical" issue. I'm thrilled by the 5230 and 5327 but I must say that I'm a little disappointed there is not new calibers (except the 28-520 in the 5930 but it is not really new even if Patek watchmakers certainly had to adapt for th...
Next year is next year...
But after looking again at the collection, I must admit that there's a nice MR... I will check it very carefully on Monday. Best, Kari
Blue is a bit small and WG.
I'm having a "private" on Monday so let's see. I hope that this Private Show is cheaper than in night clubs... Best, Kari
Kari, what are your 4?
Kari, you were told there would be 4 pieces you will be buying by the Patek salon. Which 4 do you think they had in mind? I am guessing the 5230, 5930, 5396 breguets, and maybe the 5327?
None of those!
Such pieces I would consider in platinum - not white gold. Perhaps those 4 pieces are in Nautilus collection... Till now I am not very impressed. Best Kari
I never really understood
the assumption that there will be more steel watches. It does not match the philosophy, neither their history, nor their strategy. Steel has to stay rare in their collection and they have (want to) to distinguish from other brands. A watch like the Aquana...
Tempus, you put my thoughts in a nutshell
. This message has been edited by dom007 on 2016-03-16 23:27:20
Very interesting input
with lots of perspective view. I agree they should stick to their strong foundations and strengh as it will stand the test of time through hard periods, imho. Even if I understand Kari's position if one thinks the situation will be very bad. Even if we do...
A good year?
Thanks for the quick update! First impressions: Most interesting new model, the 5230. If I where to choose one from the 2016 novelties this would be it - the G version. Most disappointing evolution, the 5327. All the elements are there, but somehow the fi...
We clearly can't love them all
and I think it is good to get offer for every potential client's tastes. Interesting to read your point of view. I won't talk about aesthetical evolutions as it is subjective but it is funny (and not new) to see that from one forumner to another, the opin...
Some lovely watches..
Interesting to see on both the new 5230 and the existing but updated 5131R that the change to the new time zones has left the city ring much more cluttered with the cities rather crashing into each other. I note the GMT red indicator on the 5131R is also ...
Sharp view
I didn't think about going to see the 5131R again but you're right its picture has been updated with the new timezone ring. I don't know how it looks in the metal, always hard to see from pics, but indeed 2 or 3 longer cities at the bottom seem to have a ...
Year of Breguet numerals, not the year of platinum or steel
Seems like last year was all about black dials, and this year is all about Breguet numerals. Nothing that new (I guess the world timer chronograph, but the look leaves me cold) That said, nice to see a blue enamel dial, those are rare. We remember it from...
Indeed Alpha, I had the same thought :)
These numerals are very beautiful and make the watches look better. In the mean time, as someone who visits quite often a watch forum, I imagine I'm biased and feel I may see too much of them. This being said, for the majority of the clients, they won't f...
As a big fan and loyal customer,
I am fairly disappointed with this year's releases. I feel it is simply too many models and variations. Aside from the obviously (to me) special references 6300G, 5204R, the 5170 variations and 5539, everything else does not stir up any excitement. The on...
The offer is quite wide in terms of style
and I imagine there is something that will appeal to clients from very different origins. Hard to please everyone I guess... As for the variations, it seems (to me) from the "2016 novelties" tab on PP's website that there are fewer than last year (though ...
I guess anything is possible.
But if so, I would be stunned. I mean, such things belong on Jacob&co watches.
Let's check first it is not a mistake in the caption...
before misjudging imho. We'll see in a few days.
Agreed.
But, I am really hoping it is a mistake. Actually, either way is a mistake...
As I thought it seems it was just caption error
as it seems it has been fixed. Cheers, Mark
I agree,
The variety PP offers is great as people have different tastes. And offering many variations will likely produce some gems, like 5370 last year. I have absolutely nothing against this approach, as it is bound to produce a few 'keepers'.
umh after last year breakthrough with the pilot I expected at least a fancy Nautilus but..
nothing here would be that interesting to me I am afraid. Even the black calatrava of last year was something ...a step back this year I would say. Perhaps they wait to release a nautilus later on..who knows.
I think that the catalogue should be considered on the middle term
Thus going back is not a bad thing when considering acquiring watches. Leaving a year is even positive to think it over. Who knows maybe the novelties will have a different taste in 6 or 10 months from now... or the Nautilus if they do something new (whic...
Initial reaction: immensely positive!
While there are no 'show stoppers' like last year's pilot, I think this is not necessarily a bad thing. The subtle developments and modifications will inspire confidence with collectors, and allow them to carefully contemplate their collections. Largely s...
Always spot on Magnus :)
We've been impressed the same way. This is always tempting to go for more "exciting" elements (even fads sometimes) on a dial or a case but this doesn't mean it is nice on the long term. When we remain on the "classical" side of the street it indeed allow...
Well, as emphasized above
Patek colelctions and novelties will never be as "impressive" as other brand do. We've been povided with many exciting models from other brands but it is something to like it on the moment and something else to like it on the long run. This is what timele...
Thank you for the nice report.
I think it is a nice collection, but there is nothing there to really excite me from the official photos. Coloured gold is not really for me, which reduces the new models significantly. The pick for me is the 5930 - i have a feeling it will look better wh...
My pleasure Russ :)
Yes, these little pictures I posted are really not the ones to judge from. I'll provide more HD pics in the days to come (waiting for the "live" ones later). Well, as I said above, I agreed above with Magnus that Patek's collection is not something "yelli...
The live photos of the 5930 are now starting to show up,
and I am very impressed. The blue is not nearly as vibrant as the official photos show, but much more subdued. The case appears quite thick though. Looking forward to your in depth thoughts on this one in due course.
Indeed, I'm eager to see what it is like in the metal as well
We'll have much to discuss about in the next few weeks/months. That's why I take much distance from all the fuss and opinions on the first impressions, though still interesting to discover. Cheers, Mark
Mostly disappointing to me - with exception of 5950r
Somehow i guess i'm just not patek's target market i guess. 3940 still represents the brand as well as anything in the current collection to me.
The 5950R looks beautyful indeed
especially with this very smoothly shaped case and overall balance. The evolution of the colelctions, decades after decades bring some significant evolutions. When someone is used to seeing and liking watches from 10 or 20 years ago, it will act like the ...
Thanks
I also probably came across a bit ungrateful for your work here. So i will say thank you!
No problem!
You express your honest feeling and this is what our discussion is all about (as long done with respect) It is my pleasure, thank you Jaypaul Cheers, Mark
Thanks Mark for the coverage !
Just from the photos, there are some winners. IMO, the blue enamel 5539 minute repeater is refreshing and stylish. The world time watches 5230 + 5930 both look good. The revised 5396 dial with Brequet numerals is very similar (same except for color ?) wit...
You're welcome Gordon :)
Funny that we are a little group to have spot on the "discreet" 5539. I like the 5230 a lot and think I need to see the 5930 in the metal to know if I like it or not. Indeed Gordon, the 5396 looks like the Tiffany except the hands shape (leaf with luminov...
Hi Mark, IMO the choice between 5230 and 5930 comes down to ...
how the gouillche dials compare when seen in the metal. From the photos, the guilloche on the 5930 looks cleaner and better (and similar to the magical pattern on the famous 5110), whereas the 5230 guilloche seems more elaborate and nouveau but needs more...
True and I think the pattern choices seems on pics to look gorgeous
However, I think that the size will be also something people will like to have a look at and, in the details, there are finally so many other differences: sportier, more impressive vs beautiful looking thinner watch... really depends on the owner imho. As...
All good
Strangely some models got smaller, like the new WT, and the new WT chrono has been also released in a smaller case than the matching 5905 from last year. I welcome that! On the other hand some models got bigger like the new 5327, which I can also understa...
Exactly, I noticed that size evolution too
What a surprise as people and trend are asking for bigger. Another proof that Patek tries to go their way in terms of dimensions and I like that. Of course getting a 5905 and 5524 in bigger size is perfect in order to offer something to people needing/wan...
Thanks Mark!
My personal favorite is the worldtimer in WG. Love the hands and dial. Wonder what the price of this one would be. I also wonder if PP will announce any new Nautilus model later this year. Crossing my fingers!
We have I think the same favorite reference from this first impressions...
the 5230 for me as well. For the same elements you mention, and I would add the lugs too. I will try to get the prices soon. Certainly a Nautilus event in the year but "what new watche(s)" remains an open subject... Thanks for sharing your impressions! Ch...
Year of the Breguet numerals
I'm seeing a move towards cleaner, more industrial look. Good in general, but I'll let these new designs digest in me for a while. Can't say any particular reference is particularly striking. That said, I'm glad I got the 5170G with the pulsometer scale w...
Words of wisdom
We are all reacting differently but it will be good to let the dust fall down a little. I think the new references have been very nicely updated: while the 5327 remains very elegant and classical, the 5230 for instance is still beautiful but more modern a...
Agreed...
Once these are available at the boutiques, I trust the live wrist shots will put a lot of our concerns to rest. Thanks for putting a great write-up in record time. Greatly appreciate this!
True, and the watch one the wrist is another element too :)
You're too kind, thank you Sanzaw!
Thanks for the report Mark...
A nice selection ...I like the Worldtime Chrono and the 5237G. I'm sure they look great live. Dave
My pleasure Dave
So you're also intrigued by the 5930, not the 5230? or is it that you prefer it more complicated? I was sure as a 5227 lover that you would have liked the new 5327 (so do I). I'm also eager to confirm my first impressions on the metal Cheers, Mark
Well...
I really like the 5230, but how many Patek WT's can one person have Ok, probably a silly question here. I think I am inclined (I have been looking) to find a good 5110P first. The 5930 is quite different with the chronograph, but of course at a different ...
That's all the question!
not mentionning the other references we like.... The 5110R, the 5227R (and 5237 of course which gets its case back) the 5960P... and now the 5230 if confirmed in the metal. Even the new 5140P looks stunning for someone always willing to get a 5140 (I've s...
I keep thinking I'll get focused in my collecting on a theme...
but I never do. I do have 5575G and 5131G, and an almost pedestrian by comparison 5130G...so I do have a bit of a trend in Patek WT in white metal.
Of course! How I could have forgotten these 2 references...
However for the 5230 and 5930, you have plenty of time to discover them and build an opinion. Until then the 5110P is a serious reason to take the plunge Cheers, Mark
Overall a good year for novelties IMO.
The 5374 is just spectacular. The only criticisms are that 1) this 3rd iteration of the world timer still falls short of the beauty and elegance of the original 5110. Maybe if they of a platinum version I'll sing a different tune. And, 2) the WT + Chrono ...
It is spectacular and I imagine it is even more so in the metal!
Hope to be able to handle it. The 5110 is a very strong contender and hard to beat in terms of elegance and refinement, much more dressy than the new 5230. In the mean time I wonder which one I would pick today: I guess the experience in real will tell. W...
Thanks for your response.
And thanks for the fine work putting the report together for our collective benefit. Great job as always.
Thanks for the info. The 5327 pc is an expected Thierry Stern product ...
being 2 mm bigger than the 5140. Since the new case is 2 mm bigger, they added the hour numbers to the open space which looks ok, but it is an entirely different font again. Thierry Stern is delivering on his promise to bring in bigger watches due to huma...
I agree with your comments about the perpetual 5327.
Funny, but my favourite remains 3940 even my 5550P is also quite nice. My wrist has not grown as a result of human evolution. Lol! Best, Kari
Well I think it is more what people want today than a "TS product"
The 5140 followed the 3940 and I think we can find many example of references going that way. Even the 5070 (42mm) was available before him. And the 5230 WT is smaller than the former 5130 WT, so a decrease. I must say that I like watches remaining under ...
Correct to say ...
That there is just 1 new movement? And even then, more a module than integrated - world time module. I like some models, but I've the impression that only Patek can get away with this fact. Br, dirk
If movements would be perfect,
there would be no need to develop new ones. Unfortunately i.e. 240Q is a bit small for a 39 mm case - 3 mm bigger than the original case (which was perfect). Best, Kari
Yes Dirk
This is a surprise maybe this year. Or maybe it is a "forum" thing to always want more, even when times are not adequate to. We are quite spoiled with Patek when you look at the wide range of calibers, which are all in-house now and very finely executed (...
Thx Mark
Yes indeed, you are right. Well elaborated. I like your first remark most: I agree, it it is a forum thing. Thanks again for your thoughtful response. Br Dirk
Great report Mark. Much appreciated.
Its good they made the world time smaller by 1mm. The 38.5 mm is really elegant for this watch. Although i still like my 5130g. I also welcome a worldtime chronograph. Basically all new watches of Patek are winners in my opinion. Cheers Geross.
Yes this size "control" is a nice surprise
or maybe not for all the people who wished to have bigger ones because of larger wrist sizes or for aesthetcial and cultuarl reasons. But I must admit that selfishly, I'm happy that way too The 5230 WT is the watch I'm the more eager to try indeed. I'm as...
5539G is a winner, from what I see. The WTs are disappointing.
The new WT, well, bravo to Patek to have reduced the size ( 1 mm smaller ). But they still didn't think about reworking the proportions of the city ring and the dial. We are less far from the original balance of the 5110, but still, they could have done b...
Yes the 5539 has cought the attention of many of us...
very romantic and in the more traditional Patek spirit I may say. The 5230 WT, well let's say that the 5110 is quite a strong competitor and is difficult to approach in terms of elegance and refinement (you have a P stunner in your collection). The new 52...
My initial impressions are....
directed towards two novelties this Basel so far: one). 5230 R I really like the black dial center and the improved case design. two). 5396 G I really like the metallic grey dial and the Arabic numerals. Thank you very much Mark for this discussion Best R...
Initial impressions are shared
We have the same first n°1 and I must say that, though the 5396 new dial doesn't look as impressive as other novelties, it is finally a very interesting one. Another element that shows that the most impressive at first is not what necessarily stands the t...
Thank you for the report Mark
It seems that Patek has played it a bit safe although I think 5396G is a good variation. I am not disappointed for not having a new movement. It is very time consuming and difficult we can't expect every year a whole lot of new movements. I am pleasantly ...
You're perfectly right about the movements
sometimes we don't appreciate at its right value what we already have and, as you underline, making new movements is not a simple thing to do either. I guess as watch enthusiasts we always want more, that's natural The 5235G is an interesting topic, every...
The best feature of 5230
is the hope of 5231P. This new World Time would be great basis for an enamel dial world time in platinum. Perhaps in 2017... Best, Kari
Well, especially for Pt lovers
but I think that colored metals have something white metals don't. Anyway, this being said, you pointed out something we're all looking forward to discovering: the 5230 is an excellent base for the 5231 indeed. Would they go for the 5131P before that? or ...
5170 is the big disappointment
I really wanted something special for this reference. The dial is just too dull for me. I had suggested a whole new reference for the movement.
Well, I see from forum's feedback these last years
that there are people loving this 5170 really much. Much less impressive than a 5070 but so true to the original references (130, 530...) and very classical and timeless (you can find here the thread where I talk about this reference considering the brand...
Thanks Mark
Excellent article and I look forward to your individual hands reports when you are able to behold.
Thanks a lot Bob :)
I'll prepare individual articles with press kit pics and my first thoughts first (these next few days) and release live pictures when I make some in a month or so. Cheers, Mark
Thanks Mark for this rapid overview of 2016 novelties
I specifically appreciate the new WT 5230G for its case and Hour hand. I noted that many cities have been changed (as for the 2016 5131R) also respecting Moscow at +3H. The central guilloché has to be seen in real for final advice. Good idea to rework it ...
Those hands are gorgeous
and the sober case matches very well the WT dial as it already contains a lot of information (and those lugs!). You summarized it perfectly and I share your opinion on that 5230. Maybe your 5374P dial wish will come true in a 5327 in the future, who knows...
Great post, thank you Mr. Mark! The blue dialed 5327G is my favorite of the bunch....
and I predict that it will become a true 'classic' over time. It exudes everything a PP should be, and does it well Thank you! Douglas
I think we don't talk much about it yet but that it will be a stunner in the metal
It looks like a darker blue than usual and I love that too. Perfectly spotted Douglas. And it is refined and elegant.... All to love in that precise version. Thanks for sharing your impressions and favorite! Cheers, Mark
A step towards more modernity and casual elegance BUT :
- Too many models with Breguet numerals; OK we like them but that’s a bit too much, especially when mixed with other fonts, the new 5327 dial looks very busy and even though the squeezed date-numbers have disappeared (thumb up on this one) - I am not sure...
Great feedback
Yes Breguet numerals have been applied on several dials and I had the same thoughts at the beginning. Wouldn't it be better to keep them rarer? Well, these are, I think, some elements to think about: - First, they are beautiful and make the watch better (...
Hi Mark, other than an excellent new dial, my first impression of 5539 is that the hands..
remind me of the ones from Laurent Ferrier , who is also a previous watchmaker from Patek. Do you have the same feeling ? Cheers, Gordon
Well, after having been working for so long at PP
I imagine that he has a strong link with the brand's style and that his taste was shaped by its experience there. There is definitely something similar in the minute hand even though they remain different (the hour hand remains a classic in watchmaking in...
Hi Mark, overall 5539 is a great watch. The hour & minute hands IMO are a cross between.
...Laurent Ferrier and Peter Speake-Marin (spade hand). Cheers, Gordon
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