Rolex

Well, it was certainly an experience. I was in Zurich on Sunday but travelled over to Geneva on Monday to see the auction. I was also tempted to pitch a few sneaky bids in for some watches....but alas, no Rolexes came my way. The room was full and there w... 

And somehow good news for me, as I am happy to see that the watches I am hunting, especially the Milgauss 1019, didn't leave the train station, yet... So, I will be able to take it! :) For the rest, well, the stars, the Daytonas, the SD Comex or not, well... 

Joe- Your analysis was EXACTLY the way I saw it. BC disappointed because the quality was weak. Your right, collectors paid top dollar (or CHF) for top quality and rarity. And your damn right about all the top dealers in the world being present. They were ... 

.....look at PuristS forums...Rolex vrs Patek The Rolex forum is full of many vintage enthusiasts. The Patek forum is dominated by mainly owners of relatively modern watches. Two different universes. Now, I think it would be a mistake to think that Rolex ... 

And you will see how they will score... A very nice Patek Chrono sector dial, stainless steel case will go over the sky. A very nice 3417, too, as well as the top of the top, the WT ( which still has the record of the highest bid, if I am not wrong ). At ... 

.....the right vintage Patek will always fly.

The interesrt of these discussions is that it is not a matter of rarity, not only, it is a good lesson for those who think that rarity makes all... For the Watch collectors, and for the brands with their supposed limited editions. The condition, the compl... 

for sure does not make everything. I too really never cared for rarity alone. It is the complete package for sure. And your example of the European DSA is a good example. I too of rarely seen one up for sale lately. Thankfully I care more for the American... 

Of course rarity (i.e. supply, or 'short supply') is not alone what counts: it's the basic law of economics defining price that counts: DEMAND vs. supply (rarity). A watch can be ultra-rare, if nobody wants it, no demand, low price. Actually, I think that... 

....as a professional economist, and that is the first time i have ever heard someone elaborate a "critical mass" idea. I like it.

that's why I look at it that way.

.....you know what they say about how no two economists can never agree.....

because I genuinely agree for example with all you have said when you started this thread: your observations are spot on in terms of Rolex vs. Patek...IMO that is. I also agree that your new white gold Patek is absolutely stunning, same as the 3483. I lov... 

...maybe its just US GDP where economists always disagree! Yep, those last two Patek purchases for me provided something quite different and actually special. A very different animal to Rolex. One thing I will add to your comment on critical mass.....that... 

..same as vintage cars, some parts of arts, etc. are attractive investments! Because exactly as you point out: demand is fixed! if at all, it goes gradually down with each watch stolen, destroyed, lost over time. BUT: demand goes up with globalisation and... 

Didn't the Italian collectors have something to do with the sudden popularity ? (I read this somewhere) Dean

And they were resisting against the Quartz Invasion. Well, Italians among others. Rolex, Patek, Omega, JLC, AP, they did a lot for mechanical watches. I would not say this is because of them, nor that it is a sudden popularity, either. Best, Nicolas

Are behind most good things.

nt

I agree with you. It is the demand supply differential which has the entire collectible universe on steroids (generously helped by world central banks). And you also make valid point if something is too rare it can work against it. However I would also sa... 

There were plenty of the right vintage Pateks. Look at the two 2499 on sale? I am sorry but the 2499 is arguably the most important chronograph on this planet. Forget the other references from Patek. They struggled to sell. There was a fine (I regret not ... 

Some Longines 13 ZN are for me most important, horologically speaking. As well as some Minervas. What is Inside a Patek 2499? But a few Chronos only can beat the purity of a 130 Sector Dial. Or the Vacheron siblings from the same era... I still think that... 

Ok perhaps it was an exaggeration. Perhaps I should have stated ' the 2499 is perhaps the most sought after chronographs in the world'. Because sought after and important are not the same. There you make a right distinction. But you cannot argue that the ... 

Nicolas- I think I understand what you mean. Your a collector of brands in general and don't differentiate between old and new? So your a Rolex collector in general because you love the brand and not only vintage. If yes- I fully understand your point. I ... 

For example, I love the Rolex Tru Beat. Who gives a sxxt to this reference? Other examples: I am not so madly in love with the vintage Dayto that I never wanted to pay the price for it. I don't go for the most popular references: The Dayto, I am very happ... 

Nicolas- I don't quite follow your logic. I think you are a Rolex collector. A vintage Rolex collector at that. I just think that you don't follow the crowd so to speak. That is what makes you charming in my view and makes you interesting and why you have... 

You will never see, at least as far as I know, a Sub small crown doing better than these 5513... Even the average good 5508 or 6536 will never score a 5512 Gilt underline or 4 lines. While, in my book, these Sub small crown are more valuable. You see... ;... 

Your comparing apples to oranges. Thats like me saying a 275 GTB is more valuable than a 250 SWB. If you take the racing version 275 GTBC that won its class in Le Mans ofcourse it is more expensive. But on average (and that is the key here - ON AVERAGE) a... 

And that I never saw a 4 lines 5508 reaching even half of this price... ;) Best, Nicolas

Nicolas thats the great thing about vintage watches. You always learn something new. Christies (unless you don't believe their research) just sold a super fine (except for the newer hands) exceptional 4L dial for nearly $90'ooo. They are probably pretty r... 

originally came with this Watch which is from, I think, a previous prod year... I woiuld be curious to see pictures of the Watch, including the serial number, and the Inside case back showing the quartal and the year... Best, Nicolas.

yes it's a " 4 lines " of printing but obviously an OCC and not a SCOC .. so you guys are telling the same story ( it's just a little misunderstanding ) : ...  

Your right. That can easily change. The one constant we can be sure in life is change. Talking about change here is a bet I am willing to publicly make: I bet in 5 yrs time that the PN mania we are witnessing today will recede. It will still be important ... 

... about both the Auction itself, and the course of collecting at present and near future. I read it with great interest, being so far of the Great Centers of collecting and auctioning, this is a world so far from my reach, and so captivating at same tim... 

not too bad English after all ... LOL LOL LOL just a small tip : in my opinion Rolex is beginning to pursue Patek so close as many collectors have realised that some watches have an history behind while most don't !

The Rolexes that are skyrocketing are those that have a history. That is what is resonating with uber wealthy collectors. That applies to omani watches, COMEXes, mil subs etc. let's not forget a milsub fetched almost 200k. What this does mean though is no... 

. ....rarity is a necessary but not sufficient factor. But..... what goes into making something stratospherically desirable for a collector is a mixture of factors, and yes, Marcello, I think this is one that is only just beginning to be reflected.......H... 

One factor, only one factor, but one factor. ;) Best, Nicolas

Does your 16660 COMEX have box and papers too? ;-D

Ask Marcello...we had an interesting private chat about this !!!

nt

There were 2 other sales in Geneva about the same date. Putting the results of these sales together would give a better picture. I noted for example the prices of CHF 60K and 67K for Milgauss ref 1019, which is not that bad. No explorers of real quality i... 

A fascinating read Baron. I think there is another question I would bring into play and that is of provenace. I have to admire Patek's support of their vintage collectors and watches. It would seem that a few years ago they took a deliberate decision to g... 

I tried to edit the post on re-reading, but missed the deadline. I wanted to change my last thought to something more general like -- -- I wonder if provenance across all the major brands won't become more prized over the next few years and the shift I've... 

PP does have one huge asset for collectors. Your point is extremely important and one that nobody had mentioned so far. I also value that in buying Patek. You rightfully point out that it is an important part of their DNA in supporting the collectors in v... 

PP does have one huge asset for collectors. Your point is extremely important and one that nobody had mentioned so far. I also value that in buying Patek. You rightfully point out that it is an important part of their DNA in supporting the collectors in v... 

.....you make a number of very valid points. Look at the Rolex forum and the Patek forum. The first is domianted by vintage collectors whereas the latter is dominated by collectors of modern. Why has that happened? Well, I think a part of it is due to the... 

I wasn't present at the auction, but I was following it on the web. Thank you for your analysis and keen description of the various groups of lots. I find that I am generally in complete agreement with your sentiments. Condition is incredibly important. R... 

Regards John