patrick_y
[PuristSPro Moderator]
33553
This is a highly technical discussion. And I don't think I'm capable of making a clear argument here.
But a Macpherson strut is inferior to a double wishbone. That's a fact. If we can't agree on that, then we unfortunately don't have a common ground.
I would say, I do like Porsches myself.
And I would say, Porsches are so good in so many other ways that they used to be even more competitive than other cars that even had double wishbones because Porsches simply had better steering, braking, and reliability.
I don't think my technical explanation was a success. And I don't think it can be successful. So I don't think it would be wise of me to state more than this. I also understand that some people take it very personally when even an alignment expert states that their car's suspension architecture is inferior. I was mildly insulted at the time. And I really didn't know the difference of the suspension types back then. I just wanted to drive around a track as fast as I could.
Corvette C8 ZR1
1064. That's the number. 1064 horsepower. 838 pound feet of torque. That's over 1100 newton meters! 1/4 mile time in under 10 seconds with a trip speed of around 150 miles per hour. Price is unknown. Forged aluminum alloy wheels are standard. Carbon fiber...
Now that's what I'm talking about.
I really dislike soft-tops. It's a good-looking vehicle, but as far as the ZR-1 is concerned, I love the 2009 variant. It's perhaps one of my favourite cars of all-time: ...
It would be, but this is not the Corvette way.
Historically, Corvettes have been RWD. The new E Ray will be AWD. But this E-Ray Hybrid AWD is not the Corvette Purist's car. The ZR1 needs to appeal to Corvette Purists.
For that you’ll need the Hybrid
But at least there is a 4WD Corvette nowadays. As for big ho RWD, computer power has made it less scary than it used to be 😁
The “stock” Vette I had was 495 hp which was, as they say, Adequate
It would do 3.3-3.4 seconds to 60 with no effort at all. ...
Had?
You don't have it anymore? Lovely machine. The standard base Vette is PLENTY. 500 HP is plenty. I'd say the Standard Vette with the Z51 package, the brakes might be slightly undersized for the weight of the car for a brake intensive track like Laguna Seca...
It's got around Bugatti levels of horsepower!
I hadn't considered the AMG One as that is a crazy crazy crazy project.
Personally I'm conflicted
I consider myself a car and bike enthusiast and as we near the end of internal combustion engines I want to celebrate the moment. At least it's not 5000 pounds. That being said I'm not a brand snob, a chassis snob or a raw horsepower fanatic. For me it's ...
A lot of people who believe in Golden Calves.
Many of them are Porsche-philes. I used to be a Porsche fan boy - Porsche could do no wrong in my eyes. And I would say 1000 hp is going to be a danger to society. And wasn't 670 horsepower in the Z06 model enough? I'd say get the 670 hp version. But some...
I hope the wing optional... 🤔
I wonder if there is any reason to have 1000HP, but well... who needs a reason?! 😂👨✈️
The wing is optional!
I'd get the one without the big wing. And as for 1000 hp... I think some people need to live more dangerously than others! Showing that they can flaunt with death is a big appeal to some men and some women.
Some will (micro viewpoint). Most won't (macro viewpoint). I choose to look at the macro viewpoint. But you're not wrong, since you used the word "maybe."
There will be some drivers of the car who can tame the beast. There will be some who can't tame the beast but won't drive the car aggressively to injure themselves or others. And there will be some who can't tame the beast and will drive the car more aggr...
How many Ferrari owners can master a Ferrari?
The vast majority of Ferrari owners drive conservatively enough to stay out of trouble They buy it for the look. The sound. The experience. Sure, they'll hit the gas a little harder on a sunny dry day, and they'll speed a little more than normal, but hope...
That depends on how you define "mad" and "master." Maybe there's a language barrier going on here. I'm not sure we're discussing the same thing here.
I can't say that I've "mastered" the AMG Mercedes, despite having driven it for many years. I've never taken it on the track. But I certainly don't drive it in a "mad" way since there are a lot of police on the road here. And because I'm fairly cautious, ...
Ahh. I think we're talking the same thing then.
There are a lot of "mad" and crazy drivers. Who have more money than ability. And they may damage their Corvette a little bit. It does happen. Hopefully not too often. But with 1000 horsepower.... Hard to say... Tesla today is the company that sells the m...
Corvette ZR1 …
It’s good to see the new Corvette ZR1 finally revealed in all its glory. The move from the traditional front engined Corvette design didn’t go down well with many Corvette enthusiasts but this car looks good and is clearly aimed at track day enthusiasts. ...
I very slightly disagree. I think every car, road car and track car, should have double-wishbone suspension.
Double wishbone suspensions provide more grip in both on camber corners and off camber corners. MacPherson Strut suspension provide only grip in on-camber corners. More grip is better in every situation. If you look at all four door Porsches; Macan, Cayen...
The cars I own …
Are a variety of cars with both MacPherson Strut and Double Wishbone suspension and I certainly wouldn’t consider a 992 an inferior handling road car.
As an individual who used to drive a 997.1-generation 911 GT3 on racetracks, I can tell you that their lack of a double wishbone is a major detriment...
You're not wrong. I was once in your shoes and I could not understand how a famous brand like Porsche could be inferior - I was in denial. And to your point... As a road car, it's inferior for the price they charge and compared to its competitive segment....
Porsche has been pretty competitive amongst it's peers, the 997 gen cars were competitive in their era with the strut fronts. Today's GT3R is double wishbone AND mid-engine, should people stop buying the 911 too because of the rear engine? 😂
As you say, Porsche has had many victories. Reliability, power, aero, Porsche built many winning cars with strut fronts because of the competitiveness of the overall package. No car is perfect, they all have their pros and cons. Porsche made the rear engi...
This is a highly technical discussion. And I don't think I'm capable of making a clear argument here.
But a Macpherson strut is inferior to a double wishbone. That's a fact. If we can't agree on that, then we unfortunately don't have a common ground. I would say, I do like Porsches myself. And I would say, Porsches are so good in so many other ways that t...
Absolutely. It's a holistic package. And Porsche makes a wonderful package. BUT, they have huge room for improvement.
And overall, a Porsche's reliability alone made it a winner in many many races. Frankly, in a race, reliability is so important because many cars simply don't finish due to reliability problems - especially during the 1950s to 1990s where a lot of Porsche...
...seen from outside
Can think of a few benefits bestowed upon Porsche. Their owners clubs seems rather affable, there are quite many garages to choose from (2 within 60 min and another within 90 min drive in this area) thus rather comfortable ownerships, and the variations b...
Good to hear your thoughts on this subject …
Thank you and I hope you have a great weekend.
Not to mention two more…
Image / brand and resale value. While I really could not care less about the badge on the car many do and the Porsche coat of arms has more cachet in more places than the intertwined flags of the Corvette and used Porsches (again depending on model and wh...
I agree …
Last weekend I got together with a friend, a professional racer over many years and development driver for a prestigious car company. He was given the task of driving and assessing the Cayman for the rival he was working for. After several weeks of giving...
Tires are a consumable in that respect 😉
Sadly the SUVs of Porsche are not nearly as durable under stress. Had a 24 event with them and not a single one managed to survive it without quite some mechanical pain 🤷🏻♂️ But then those generally do not tend to be driven that way most of the time from...
Interesting …
Last week I ended up with a Macan “T” for two days. Some likeable aspects, but the engine just didn’t do it for me. I actually wished it was electric giving all that torque 💪
The all electric Macao should be available shortly 😁👍🏻
Although calling the stronger one Turbo is a bit weird 😉
The Macan 4s will be a good version 👍…
You just have to be careful on the epic options list 🫣
Sparepart availability
The access to spareparts and the time it takes get them would be one of the benefits of the higher volumes by Porsche. Would be more of an issue with rare birds. As far as SUV`s (or Panamera) goes, a lot of those are hybrids, and doubling up adds complexi...
While a valid point in principle…
The ones in question were pure petrol ones 😉 As for wear and tear, many components of hybrid vehicles (brakes primarily but not exclusively) seem to have less of it than the pure ICE variants. Speaking of normal road use, though 😊👍🏻
Hybrid issues
No excuses then. Belive both X5, XC90 and Panameras at least are more of a risk in hybrid iterations. Hybrid/EV isn`t really my cup of tea anyway
That surprises me...
When I did the Roger Dubuis X Lamborghini race track drive in Las Vegas, it was hosted by a company in Las Vegas that sold $400 packages for a "four-lap package" on the race track - so they have dozens of cars and they serve thousands of tourists each yea...
I'm not one for brand exclusive owners clubs...
I've found a mix of experiences within different car clubs. While some, such as the BMW and Lotus Car Clubs (which are not brand exclusive), offer a welcoming environment with a focus on safety and driver education, others have a different dynamic. For ex...
Mankind
Belive that`s the nature of mankind I`m afraid. Homogenous groups aren`t always that homogenous, and there will always be a wide spectrum of approaches and weight applied. Somewhere in the middle it balances out, and if the middle is strong enough there w...
Crazy numbers !
In a world where we are heading towards an average road speed of 4,63 mph
For USA roads yes. Heck, for even some race tracks, yes.
Really have to rethink your braking points since you'll be carrying so much more speed. I'd have to brake at the "5" sign when I normally brake at the "2" or "3" sign.
If GM's dealers sells this to a bad driver knowingly and that bad driver injures you, would you sue GM and their dealer?
In Europe, maybe you can use some of the 1000 hp? In America.... On public roads? With the low speed limits in America... Definitely nobody needs 1000 hp. EXCEPT to be able to say at the dinner table - my engine is bigger than yours - not that I'm able to...
Yikes! Even Parliament noticed the Lotus!
Does this mean the Brits are more pragmatic than the Americans? Or does it mean the Brits don't want the Baddies/Criminals to have powerful cars - since they're the ones likely to abuse and exploit the power of those cars? Or both?
It’s sexy AF and full of testosterone…
until you get trolled by a soccer mom in a Tesla Plaid 😂 🤷♂️
Oh no!!! You just deflated my Corvette bubble!
But seriously you're quite right. I have a V8 AMG Mercedes in addition to my electric car - and I know the Teslas on the road are probably faster than me! I have to say though, I do like the electric cars. Bad tires - those eco tires aren't great. Bad bra...
There’s an advantage in Germany…
Generally above a certain speed it’s all combustion power 😉👍🏻 Would like my next car to be electric but sadly no charging at home as of yet. Hopefully at some point soon 🤞🏻