Horological Meandering

I thought this would be a fun topic. For me, it depends on the price range of the watch and what reasons I’m buying for. If you are buying a small production vintage patek or rolex, you aren’t expecting some magical jump in quality. You’re paying for rari...  

They do wear and tear. I don’t believe some deep beveling or nice sharp angles cannot be achieved by another watchmaker who’s assigned one job just to polish. Hence I won’t buy too high end expensive Indies…but who do I know? Does the brush strokes of tho... 

I don't think that's fair at all. Either one should provide a recent example, or I would say that the argument doesn't have a leg to stand on in this. Now, I don't mean to be unnecessarily harsh to you, my apologies, but I've seen this exact argument on a... 

Personally, I am in awe of anyone who is willing to step onto the stage and subject themselves to public scrutiny. 🧐

Of loving evidence of the “Hand of the Maker”! I have no problem with signs that a human being was involved, especially where magnification of this order is required. I think the beauty lies in the wonderful dial design, the history behind this extraordin... 

George Daniels did something. RS….didnt really?

He CNCs everything.

Being "handmade" doesn't make it good... or even actually handmade. Having 50 interior angles doesn't mean any of them were executed well. Innovative complications doesn't equate to well tested, performant, and reliable. In the current indy craze I think ... 

He uses CNC for the cutting of components, and he doesn't make jewels, springs, and gaskets. He has openly shared such info with watch publications, social media, speeches, gatherings, and watch fairs. It's not a secret. His workshop is opened for any of ... 

Yet still 95 percent handmade? I don’t understand the math.

but only the raw pieces for some movement components if I heard him correctly. A watch is not just movements.. He made the case, lugs, dial, crown and bezel using traditional methods, hand-guilloche and engraved the dial, plus finishing of the movement (m... 

"We’ve always used CNC machines,” explains Smith. “I’ve never shied away from showing that. If you want to make more than one watch a year you need to use CNC, there’s no question. Making pocket watches by hand is one thing but the reduced tolerances requ... 

Pick any two: Low Price High Quality Excellent Customer Service Robots are 'perfect', get a Swatch 51. Yes some names / houses / brands do seem overly hyped in price versus actual quality and watchmaker hours, herd mentality and all that. Best value/quali...  

Roger Smith might pump out 15 - 20 watches in a banger year, while Greubel Forsey is producing 200+ watches pear year. In comparison, Roger Smith's watches rely on the human hand to a greater degree. Of course if you want to fly close to the sun of perfec... 

Tried the HM1 on: ...  

260 annually for GF and 18 per year for Roger Smith - that's more GF in 1 year than the total Roger Smith ever made (150 up to Oct 2023)...

For his Series 2 is very telling.

Retail on these is more than 500k now

White gold S2 now retails at £357,200. The retail for this particular S2 would have been much lower then.

I don't have a Series 2 and tempted to join the bidding, but decided against as a i prefer a complete set

The results for any Greubel Forsey are telling on the other hand

are willing to pay for handwork. That's it. Roger is not forcing his watches on us adults spending our own money freely.

As I do with mine

This is exactly the point I made above, people use what they are told to make inferences or even excuses for quality when in fact price, rarity, marketing, media, etc are not real indicators of quality. RM tourbillon secondary prices way stronger than RWS... 

I posted above Roger's style of finishing is not the style of French/Swiss. George Daniels has a dim view on finishing and it shows in his own watches. Roger is an apprentice of GD so why are you judging him based on your own view of finishing? What exact... 

RWS uses CNC machines for everything, including cases. That Youtube video you cite is years old. Even there, he makes the final cuts on the case with a CNC. For the record, I have no problem with CNC machines and in fact prefer it if my watches are made u... 

I'm convinced you are either (1) trolling (2) watched the video of Rolex manufacturing since you love Rolex (3) hate handmade watches with a passion (4) enjoy misinformation and/or (5) hate Roger Smith. I'm at a loss for words for someone who refuses to a... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWtblU8-emY&t=0s Roger: "We use CNC quite a bit, especially with the case work" Like you, I am averse to misinformation. Perhaps your definition of handmade is different from my own. You have every right to enjoy your incom... 

The CNC was used to punch holes for the gasket (to improve water resistance) and screws. At that point the case was already completed. You conveniently missed all 6 of 7 videos of how he handmade his case. Do yourself a favour - watch how the GF HM1 was m... 

I feel like the point of the thread is being missed. These are clear flaws and objectively bad quality.

Chronometry? Movement infrastructure? Service interval? Robustness? Tolerance between parts? Can you please define because your thread is all about "quality" which you have not defined to this date. Do you have real ownership experience to derive such a c... 

Crazy 2 out of 5 coming up for auction at the same time