holdemchamp1225
22901
When I first read this I didn't know what to think. I would imagine most of the allure of Independents is their freedom to create and innovate without the need to answer to shareholder, owners, etc...
I understand that having financial backing stabilizes their future survival but at what cost?
I don't want to sound pessimistic but just look what happened to Daniel Roth, Roger Dubuis, etc...once they were acquired. I know it was a different time but business is business.
I really love and have tremendous respect for Denis Flageollet and DeBethune. I hope they continue to innovate and not ramp up production to satisfy their new ownership group. This already happened, going from around 120 - 125 watches produced a year to 200 this year. That might not seem like a lot BUT it IS percentage wise š¤·āāļø
I do give Tim a lot of credit as well as he was touting the brilliance of Denis and DeBethune for the past few years, long before WB was in the picture and before DB picked up steam with the auction houses and secondary market.
Let's just hope DB stays on track as they produce some incredible piece with truly artistic and artisanal flair šš„
...
Good for everyone involved reaping the rewards from their hard work but I get the feeling this isn't good for actual watch lovers/collectors/... and the likes. Watches are already being used as investment pieces and now with companies like Chanel getting ...
I saw this in IG.
My comments are as such 1. Watchboxes main watch expert (Tim Mosso) is a huge DeBethune fan. Now, whether that is serendipitous or a result of him betting more exposure to the brand as watchbox had more DeBethunes on hand (as they were eyeing purchasing a...
I feel like Tim, is a huge fan of whatever he is trying to sell you.
Have you ever heard a review from the guy that doesn't say how amazing a piece is? I think everything he or Hodinkee say with a grain of salt and do research on my own.
Of course; one should always do their due diligence. But, to his credit, he also took a stand during his companyās āJourne blitzā to make it clear that he felt that DeBethune and several other Indies were more deserving of our attention.
I also admire him for his deep knowledge of horology. He can probably pick anything from the safe, but he continues to rock a Sinn Hodinkee, though, are all about pushing what they sell (which is everything, of late)
Yes but was that push because Journe in itself was moving towards a boutique model and away from ADs? And this DB play was already on the horizon?
If I'm selling crypto or heavily invested in crypto it's in my best interest to convince you that crypto is the future although nothing tangible is there. When I look at something i peck at it from all angles like a bird to see what the angles are. Not li...
Fortunately for me, my personal finances require me to live by the adage that you mentioned:
ā either get it as MSRP or below or I don't buy itā. As for the GT3RS, tell us more. Do you still own it? Do you take it on track days? What are your thoughts on the 992 Gt3? As for Journe, I believe their decision to go boutique only preceded the Watchbo...
Tangents is always on the menu:)
I do still own it, I bought it new for $50k over list when the hysteria was in full bloom. It was $150-$100k over list initially so I thought I was getting a good deal., There was a lot of speculation that it was going to be the last of the ICE engines. A...
Breathtaking photos.
Iāve learned a lot from you through this virtual forum as we seem to have similar tastes and life challenges. I have several personal experiences of how buying for speculation eventually fails, and how buying with emotion always leads to satisfaction. So ...
Thanks for the kind words Hussam..
I always joke with my friends if you want investment advice ask me what I'm doing and do the opposite But in all honesty the best advice I could give is A) buy what you like B) buy what you can afford, these are luxury items that are meant to be enjoyed I...
"If you want investment advice, ask me what I'm doing and do the opposite"...hey, that's my line too, lol :)P
I guessed that's how hedge funds and investment banks getting bigger....
All of your machines are looking good
Is the 911 paint-to-sample, or is that purple somehow a factory option? Best, Tim
Hi Tim,
The UV was limited to the 991.1 RS line and discontinued afterwards. It was really difficult to get a coherent sample from what I've been told. I let my daughter pick the color at the time and I concurred after watching Chris Harris's video on the 991.1 a...
Chris Harris.
Another legend of his own industry. Loved his content when he was doing his own YouTube channel (before top gear).
Hey Iiving-legend. Didnāt know that you frequented our humble forum.
I donāt hold you accountable for WBās decisions, big or small, but I do hope that the owners listen to you when it comes to untapped brands. Your reviews are all-encompassing and āthe referenceā on YouTube. Love your work. What WBās marketing strategy wit...
Thanks so much, Hussam
Indeed, I'm on this site almost every day even though I keep a low profile as a participant. I do my best within the scope of my job description to steer collectors towards "best value" options rather than stuff that might be closer to its ultimate market...
Tim, I watch your watch reviews the same way I used to watch TV when that still was at thing.
Your videos are both entertaining and highly informative to me. I have bought three watches after first watching your video reviews before deciding to go to a shop and buy them, including one which I bought from your company in Philadelphia. Keep up the e...
Donāt forget me Tim
I hope to purchase a De Bethune one day. I almost bought the Titan Hawk, but wanted a hacking seconds to cement the āperfectā watch for my needs. DB is stunning. By the way, I watch 2-3 of your reviews daily. Pls keep up the great work. Arnold Schwarzenne...
FPJ watches WB sells are used items. Journe's AD strategy won't change WB's interest in the brand as preowned watches.
I've recommended everything from Laurent Ferrier to Karsten Fraessdorf to UN as interesting alternatives to cost-prohibitive brands or models, and I stand by that. Collectors should take all options into account before making a decision. Best, Tim
I've never claimed a watch was something it wasn't
My pitches are positive but factual. I've never claimed an Hublot is discreet or that a Greubel Forsey fits tiny wrists or that a complete calendar is actually a perpetual. You get the facts about the size of the watch, what it does, and -- to the best of...
Thanks for the support, Nico
I'd like to think that I keep my reviews and web shows pretty factual. Most people who follow me are aware that I like some brands more and others less, but I don't slam or disparage the ones I don't favor. As for hyped watches and brands, I've always bee...
Agreed. I don't think people will appreciate LF's finish and overall quality unless they're gone.
Too much prejudice against the "customer" movements from LFDT means people don't appreciate the quality of the finished product. LF might be the finest traditional etablisseur in Switzerland today. I will say that LF made a succession of product planning ...
Baller move Tim, if DB won't make you the watch you want just buy the company š
I hope this gets you one step closer to your DB28, I'm rooting for you!
If only it worked like that!
But I do have to admit this worked out pretty well. A few years ago, I picked an obscure favorite brand, and now... wow. I should start talking up Pagani and Koenigsegg cars. Best, Tim
Well...
I almost wonder if DB suffered more than most during the Covid shutdown... Watchbox has a vested interest in the brand and would want it to thrive. As much as I like what Watchbox brings in terms of education, and exposure to the market, I can't help but ...
Great
I think investment in the brand is a good thing. Makes it a much safer buy. When I was picking between a DB and a Lange Zeitwerk a year or so ago...I didn't pick DB because i had heard their brand was struggling. I know they've done well since though. Jus...
Any movement is serviceable
Donāt forget there are a lot of third party service and restoration companies existing Hell parmigiani is one
The movement not being serviceable argument has not been valid for a long time
Even a crazy proprietary silicone escapement movement will be serviceable. Even if you need to build parts. May cost a lot, but it will be serviceable
I think this is a win win win for everyone ultimately despite some of the recent shenanigans
De Bethune having the investment it needs to continue benefits everyone, DB, Watchbox, and collectors so I think this is great news! DB needs some serious brand marketing help and WB (Tim) is probably their best spokesperson already so if this investment ...
my first gut reaction was entirely cynical upon reading this news, but after reading your well-reasoned post; i'm changed my view for the most part......
Do I still see this as a cash-grab? Of course...Watchbox sees 'blood in the water' and they're attacking, but a business has a right to do that within the law. I don't like market manipulation in any form, and there is a lot of it going on right now with ...
I do worry
that the mystique of the brand will wane as a result of this partnership. Some of the romance of De Bethune has been lost. And thatās a big part of why I bought one of their watches
Wearing mine as I read thisā¦
and I think all is true that was said before in this thread. I definitely think this will be great news for DB short term but a question mark long term. WB as a marketplace has objectives that are not aligned with DBās. What I find harder to imagine is wh...
Agree. At least this investment means there will be a long term to see how things work out š
Also wearing my DB today too! This doesn't take away from my enjoyment of DB or desire to add another one bit, if anything I feel better knowing their future is that much more secure. Long term I'm cautiously optimistic. WB might not know how to start a n...
Good for both parties IMO, hopefully for the true collectors as wellā¦
The issue for those wishing to acquire a piece will be accessibility, likely even more difficult with the marriage. WatchBox will hold watches in their inventory to tighten supply with the inevitable price rise to follow suit. Weāve seen that play beforeā¦...
Its something we have seen many times before in the past i guess . We know they already had some people from the industry who invested in the brand same like THG or Chronopassion and Ginotti did with other brands .
Its not something to worry about i think and if its helping the brand then lets hope everyone benefits from it , collectors and the brand and there partners
Market Maker
Watchbox is trying to duplicate the market maker role of Journe with the De Bethune. Especially, Journe is going to discontinue the US dealer network in 2022, which Govberg Jewelers is part of it.
General rule: market consolidation leads to market capture
We have international processes to guard against excessive vertical integration across industries. These are unevenly supported so usually ineffective. Even the most powerful countries have seen their competition / monopolies & mergers / anti-trust le...
When I first read this I didn't know what to think. I would imagine most of the allure of Independents is their freedom to create and innovate without the need to answer to shareholder, owners, etc...
I understand that having financial backing stabilizes their future survival but at what cost? I don't want to sound pessimistic but just look what happened to Daniel Roth, Roger Dubuis, etc...once they were acquired. I know it was a different time but bus...