SteveW
204
Much remains cloudy after all this time.
But this seems clear. The 30mm chronometer movements were the Calibers 30T2Rg, 30T2RgSc (small seconds and centre seconds respectively) which were later in 1949 renumbered to Cals 262 and 281. The chronometers used special parts, including the hairspring, balance wheel and pallet lever and in addition had a fine regulation device (hence the 'Rg' in the original 30T2Rg etc calibers). The screw regulator seems only to have been used on the 30mm movements (the manual winds discussed here and their bumper automatic equivalents). The later movements, for example the ones used in the Constellations, appear all to use a swan-neck regulator.
The Cal 283 and its small second equivalent did not have the chronometer parts, but was equipped with 17 jewels (not 15) and was antimagnetic, mainly I think due to the balance and balance spring materials. It was definitely a superior movement.
Here is a 30T2Rg showing the regulator.
The non-chronometers had a simple pointer adjuster. Here is a standard 30T2 non-chronometer movement (the colour of the plating is not significant to the chronometer question):
Here is what the Ranfft database says of the Omega 30mm manual wind movements, but it's not comprehensive, it doesn't include the earlier regulator movements.
sub second:
30 : 15 jewels, no shock protection
30T1: 15 jewels, no shock protection
30T2PC: 15 jewels, Incabloc
260: =30T2 since 1949, 15 jewels
261: 17 jewels, antimagnetic
262: 17 jewels, excenter regulator
265: 15 jewels, antimagnetic
266,267: 17 jewels, antimagnetic
268: ring- instead screw balance
269: flat- instead Breguet-hairspring
sweep second:
30SC : 16 jewels, no shock protection
30T1: 16 jewels, no shock protection
30T2SC: 16 jwwels, no shock protection
30T2SCPC: 17/18 jewels, Incabloc
280: =Omega 30SC T2 since 1949, 17 jewels
281: 17 jewels, excenter regulator
283,284: 17 jewels, antimagnetic
285: ring- instead screw balance
286: flat- instead Breguet-hairspring
Omega 2777-1: my quick review of this military issue amagnetic chronometer
I thought now that I had made the leap of faith and finally purchased my first vintage Omega, it would be good to add a little more colour to the watch. There is a certain aura with British military watches. To be fair, there is an aura to most military w...
Does yours have the inner ring surrounding the dust cover?
We are not far from perfection, to me. Yes, I've read that some saw it as the first Railmaster. Others state that it was the first amagnetic, forgetting that 5 years before, the JLC Mark 11 was issued... But hey, what's the most important? To own a Watch ...
I will....
.....need to open her up. I know it has the standard outer casing, but not sure I know what you mean by the inner ring surround...I will open up
Baron, I agree with Nicolas - well played indeed.
I am more an Omega novice than you, but for what it is worth, it''s a very desireable watch when measured by my own standards of desireabilitiy! One question -- could you share with us the source of your research with respect to this watch? I would like t...
Research?
As a beginner...and really am a beginner, I relied on some tips from guys who had already done a lot of research. For example, a certain Italian gave me the hint that the dial on my 2777-1 was a MoD issue because of the replacement of radium. The internet...
Collecting Omega? . . .
. . . might as well start at the top! I didn't get the allure of military issues immediately; it took several years. You're quick on the uptake. PS - Vegas has the odds at 5:1 you'll find a chronometer by the end of the year
Very nice Omega 'Fat Arrow'...
...in amazingly good condition. I have been wearing several Omegas based on the 30mm movement recently and I am amazed how well these 70+ year old movements work. One small voice of dissent: the Cal 283 wasn't outfitted as a chronometer movement - the MoD...
Question to experts..... (Zirtual/SteveW)
.......I have read many places that the 2777-1 has a chronometer grade movement. SteveW suggests that this is not the case....Zirtual makes the exact opposite point. From the research I have looked at, the RAF53s have a chronometer grade movement, but I a...
Cal 283 was not made exclusively for the 2777
Here is another of my lesser known Omegas: CK 2640, Cal 283. Could it be that some of the models using the Cal 283 movements were Chronometer certified? This one is not... Best Blomman ...
far from being an expert
Hi Baron, Herunder a couple of sources on the ck2777 being a chronometer grade movement. It can probably be found stated many other places, but I simply do not remember where. I own a thin arrow and I remember having checked that point when I acquired it....
Zirtual, that is fantastic provenance for your view!
Looks conclusive to me. And great to have some of that history reproduced. No problem with the associated weblink....I am not trying to sell my watch!! ...and there is no commercial angle to providing this information...its a quest for knowledge and its v...
You're welcome, Joe!
Again congrats on your far… here is my tar for company. Notice the absence of rail track, not common but also legit. Best Z' ...
ztirual, the dial in your watch is not legit MoD issue. it is a later repaint; done.....
in the UK when the Omegas were auctioned by the MoD and many , many spares were auctioned too. cases,dials,movements,hands, everything for peannuts. there were a few bigger dealers, who bought the lot from the MoD. and had dials repainted. that is the "T ...
Thanks Achim
You might well be right on a 1956 re-dial. Very blurry skies, not to say muddy water, around some of those thin arrow versions. Something I will need to investigate when I have time. Best regards
Much remains cloudy after all this time.
But this seems clear. The 30mm chronometer movements were the Calibers 30T2Rg, 30T2RgSc (small seconds and centre seconds respectively) which were later in 1949 renumbered to Cals 262 and 281. The chronometers used special parts, including the hairspring,...
There is an error...
Hi Steve, There is an error in Ranfft´s database. There is no such Cal. as 30 SC - the center sec. 30mm movements started with 30 SC T1 whereas there was Cal. 30, then 30 T1 best Erich
After sifting thru available sources . . .
. . . it's my sense that the 'chronometer grade' appellation given to various Omega military issue references is probably related to contractual arrangements that specified tight tolerances for delivered goods. As Steve has already clarified, the level of...
Hello Art,
Do you have A journey trough time, by Marco Richon? I don't. But a friend tells me that it is written that this caliber 30T3, cal 283 with centred second, was adjusted in four positions to keep accurate time to 10 seconds a day, which is chronometer stand...
Unfortunately, no, z, I don't own a copy . . .
. . . but as Bill's post from several years back attests, there were special versions of the cal 283 fitted with swan's neck regulators that would merit chronometer description, in contrast to specimens like blomman's with plain stick regulators. Let's wa...
Do not expect fine tuning/ regulating
mechanism on those Raf 53. Yes you are right 1/ No chronometric inscriptions on the dial (just as the other military of the time) or on the movement 2/ No certification with Bulletin de Marche. Remember Omega were busy producing the very first Constellati...
What I love about vintage collecting is the
uncertainty! Where do I go with this? I'm going with Zirtual! If Omega call it a chronometer, that's good enough for my biased view. LOL You gotta love vintage
Thanks H....
.....like you, I have a main body of collection (for me Rolex), but it is nice to have satellite collections in various manufacturers...and I think Omega offers something quite different and special.
Pilot watches
I question the quoted number of these Omega watches produced for the RAF. Was it really that few? In the 1950’s and 1960’s there must have been more pilots requiring 5,900 new Omega watches in the RAF. Not just those in the front line but also all those u...
I think one of the main reasons why military watches are so . . .
. . . popular amongst collectors is mentioned in your reply: they weren't granted to personnel, but issued . . . kinda like rifles. When a collector acquires one, they're getting not only a watch, but also a slice of a nation's patrimony. Thanks for joini...
A couple of things.....
First, some confirmation regarding the issue of 5900 watches. Like Comex, when a watch is issued, it doesn't necessarily stay with the same person, but rather gets circulated around to a number of individuals over time. Not sure who to credit for the foll...
RAF pilot watches and straps
It was easy to fit my Japanese made steel deployment bracelet, bought in 1960's and which I still have (I am a hoarder even though that bracelet is crude and will never be used by me). The ends are open and were placed around the fixed bars and the ends c...
forgot something........
in the world of military issued watches the actual numbers on the watch do not reflect the ordered numbers. the numbers on the watch reflect the issued watches in total in that year. ( omega;IWC;jaeger;smith...... name it) kind regards. achim
mmhhhh ...
not exactly : the delivery number in MOD watches is progressive and doesn't begin from zero each new year . so for example 3456/74 means that a particular watch ( identified through his NSN or his own MOD code ) is the 3456th delivered from the beginning ...
credit for the factory receipt...........
that came from Mr. Diethelm from the factory. Bill Sohne and myself got it from him. many years ago........... kind regards. achim
Beautiful addition
Very discrete with a lot of "content", sure you will love it. Enjoy François
Great post dear Joe! Lots of interesting information about...
... military watches, and of course a lovely Omega you got. Thank you for sharing all this knowledge friends! Very cordially, Abel.