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A very well written & thoughtful piece
Miles,
Thank you for you detailed and well thought out assessment. I agree with you regarding your 5970 with the salmon dial...it is a very special watch which you will enjoy for many, many years! But I do believe that your watch has become more valuable since Patek announced the 5270 P with the salmon dial. I do not post here much, but enjoy reading your posts.
All the best and keep posting!
Rick Bocci
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When You're a Disappointed Patek Fan After Basel
After yet another disappointment for me this year with the new releases I have had time to reflect. I have known for a while that there was a chance that a Salmon dial 5270 was on its way. I have had many many emails and messages regarding the launch of t...
Fully with you, 5970 is hard to beat and
the not so perfect symmetry and the two port holes on the 5270 are less than ideal. Re your comments on Patek: I also agree. I do understand that they have a business to run and need to make the most out of it, but certain behaviours are going to be count...
i agree
theare are no ideas . patek with 5970 e 5070 has arrived at the top . great disappointement for 40th collection , the 5711P ( few pieces only for boutique ) already existed and it was perfect . today only bad copies .
Never trust companies on limited editions.
I feel for you but that is the nature of business, profit making. If any consolation you still have a nice watch
Hey Miles......
Your post reminded me of a time when i was in my late-20s. I had some money and it was burning a hole in my pocket. I went along to a Porsche dealership and had a test drive in a 911. It was the 993 version. The test drive was just incredible. The road ho...
Thank you Joe for yet another honest well articulated reply.
I just really donāt want to fall out of love with Patek for the very same reasons I did Rolex and then what will I do???? I will have to speak to the good lady and children again š M.
The thing is, Miles
....you have been collecting Patek for decades. You come at the issue from a position that few on this forum can empathise with....decades of experience and knowledge.
Very interesting answer. As for the different layers you describe I have a question.
Do you think the movement decoration is better in the 5131P movement, the Cal 240 HU than in any 5130, or 5230? Same for the 5370P: Do you think that its movement is superiorly finished than the one beating in a 5170? Additional pieces of the Rattrapante ...
On 5370....
....yes, the finishing does seem of a higher standard to the 5170......yes... On 5131.....i can't tell you as mine doesn't arrive until next week!!!
5370P vs 5170P
I am lucky to have both and to my eye the 5370 finishing is visibly superior... Best, Gary
No doubt
canāt compare the 5370 to 5170, hold them side by side and all will be explained!
The thing about the 993 iteration of the 911 is that it was built to be the best sports car on the planet without regard to profitability
The resulting product was astounding, but it nearly bankrupted Porsche. It is rare that a company makes anything these days which is built to an āidealā like the 993 was. This probably is also true for Patek these days, with the exception of a few referen...
Sorry but you are sorely mistaken.
The 993 was cobbled together and not a great seller. They skimped out on a lot of parts.... from door switches to the terrible Monroe shocks. Porsche made a Hail Mary pass with the boxster at that time and it made out. The only similarity to a 993 and a 5...
Well, Iāve owned one for 15 years
Nothing ever goes wrong with it. Just ordinary maintenance and consumables. The leather still looks new and is of finer quality than my ānewā Porsche. The stitching is still perfect. There is no fading or degradation to any of the interior parts. Frankly,...
And Iāve owned a 993 turbo for 10y...
but it doesnāt change the point that Porsche spared every expense when they built it. ...
Drove my 993 turbo home wearing my 5970P tonight...
Seems like 993's are a popular choice here. I personally prefer the 5970 over the 5270 but appreciate both pieces. It reminds of when Porsche went from the 993 to 996, a lot of purists didn't like the water cooled 996 engine and styling then Porsche came ...
Bravo Joe, i agree with you but if i may add...
... Patek had to adapt when they started developing their own movement. Thats when they went on the spiral of producing more and more... and much more. When you go down that road, you tend to loose part of your soul along the way. They try to stay true to...
The times are mad not Patek
The 5970 P has had its appeal also as an investment piece, this is how I see this 5970P. It is also undeniably beautiful, in any version and any metal. The 5270 is by far technically more advanced than the 5970, as it is with the 5170 c and the 5070: but ...
You are not alone and will tell you this....
Lemania-era chronographs and PCCs will not be beat and 5170 and 5270 have been quite negatively received if one believes secondary market prices are an indication of demand. I firmly believe Lemani-Pateks are some of the best watches this great company ha...
The 5270p will increase
the interest and demand for the Salmon 5970. 5970 is just a perfect watch. You have a Gem ! Would be happy to own it š
I have always been a fan of 5970...
and I had it 3 times before and every single time we part ways amicably Why? I LOVE the look of 5970G because of the steel gray dial but it's hard for me to like the movement. The size of 5970 is also damn perfect. Overall, 5270 is a better watch technica...
Whilst I would like to thank you for your reply.
āBraggingā rights had absolutely nothing to do with why I bought my watch. The moment I saw it I just knew I had to have it. The feeling inside it gave me was like nothing Iād ever experienced before with all the Watches Iād seen and owned. The fact that ...
'Bragging rights'...
Bragging Rights is not meant as a negative wording. We all buy something special, simply because of that , not that we will actually brag about it. The idea to own something unique is in all of us. I don't think it is wrong. When we own any Patek , we als...
Rarer is an understatement and do understand your Bragging rights explanation and agree with you.
So thank you again. šš¼ M.
Hi Miles, thanks for your interesting posts and honest thoughts on Patek !
IMO, your 5970 (with leminia engine) with salmon dial is a grail with or without the new 5270 with salmon dial ! To me, although the new 5270 could lower demand for your piece, your watch will still be highly sought after because it is a totally different...
I agree with you on the 40th Nautilus, Miles, but not on the 5270P.
For me, 5970 and 5270 cannot really be compared. Two totally different watches. The new movement is giving the 5270 a completely new design by bringing more space to the top area of the dial. Itās not as traditional as the 5970 and gets a moderne touch by...
5 Arabic
numerals just at the top do not work for me. Needs something all around the dial for balance. This dial is too top heavy and awkward. The color of the numerals and hands appears a dull dark color to me. The 5970 from a purely atheistic point is considerab...
Thank you and yes I agree. Dial all wrong to me also.
The dark top half keeps catching my eye and would annoy me in a way the 5970 dial just dies not. Your comments are most welcome. M.
I agree pretty much.
The anniversary Nautilus was a big shock to me and I did not take either even those were offered to me. Also the recent price increase of 5711 & 5712 with 20% was not something I could appreciate. There are some other issues which do not make me very happ...
Thank you Kari. That is exactly how I feel and I am pleased that another seasoned collector feels the same.
I have been collecting for 30 years and have also taken delivery of 2 Rolex this year with 2 more on the way. Whilst I have managed to keep many of my watches over the years and through a tough divorce I just feel that Iāve been sold out. Albeit in a mino...
We seem to feel the same.
Things like a bracelet in 5131P make me very upset. If you figure out the pricing, you will notice that the "value" of the bracelet is 40-45K. And it has platinum worth of max. 3k. I feel that we are nowadays heavily milked even the old wisdom is "don't k...
Hi Kari, interesting perspective ! If I recall correctly, you bought or were about to buy one, right ?
If so, why did you not say no ? Cheers, Gordon
I was offered an unique watch
but with platinum bracelet. I was very happy to get that offer and said "yes" to that and refused my 5131P which already arrived the Salon. The simple reason was that I can't afford putting aside two platinum bracelets and buy straps with deployment buckl...
Actually there are two.
The other one I'll get in the summer and the other one in the end of the year or next year. The second one is with bracelet and it is more "special". I have pictures made by PP but I have promised to keep them P&C. I'll go to Geneva on 18th and I'll ask w...
I just read this now, Kari...If you mean that Patek has created a unique piece for you, or even just a unique variation of an existing piece, that'd be *really* fantastic!! :-)
Congrats in advance --- and I also look forward to seeing this beauty when you have a chance Best wishes
Naturally just an unique variation.
A totally unique piece would be simply too cool (and expensive). Best, Kari
Let's see when the watches arrive.
Both are like their "parents" should have been from the beginning. Best, Kari
I thought 5131P arrived with papers already in the owners name?
Sounds like this isnāt the case.
salmons
made me laugh to read of a dealer looking to talk you into selling yours on the cheap... can see it taking place in front of me in my mind. Some very valid and interesting points you raise and in a blurb below I will try to summarize my take.... hope not ...
Iām afraid as a huge Patek fan but non collector I have to disagree with some of your thoughts.
You clearly have a passion built over many years of Patek ownership that guides your thoughts on what direction they should take - as do many other respondents to your thread. Your salmon 5970 is an absolutely amazing piece and extremely rare. I would of ...
Well said!
As part of the Patek proletariat I agree. I own a lowly 5270R. Although it is not highly collectible and is criticized a lot, itās an awesome watch to wear. ...
Your 'lowly' R LOOOL! is not citicised a lot, quite the opposite, it's adored by many and ...
in my opinion is still representative of one of the best metal dial combinations in the 5270 range, yes I own the same piece too and chose it for that very reason. I still don't get why people get so uptight regarding comparisons between it and the 5970, ...
And what a mighty fine point it is may I say.
My post was not a this is better than that in any way shape or form. I was simply trying to reply to many questions I had been asked. If it came over any other way then I apologise and not the intention. You are right very different Watches both great but...
Agree you should not trade your 57970G for a 5270P, but rather disappointed with your post
With due respect, you have been given a great favor by Patek with allocation of the extremely rare 5970G salmon (and probably others), which we are all in love with when we see it time and time and again in this forum and others, but you are disappointed ...
Thank you. But just to clarify there is no chance of me swapping my 5970.
I thought Iād made that very clear in my post. My post was to try and reply to many peoples questions about my thoughts on Patek and the launch of the 5270p. M.
Thank you for your response.
I have just tried to be as honest as I can in replying to lots of questions which I felt deserved replyās. I make no apology though for how Patekās recent marketing and sales strategy has made me feel. Rightly or wrongly they have made decisions that I ju...
I am not sure what part of Patekās marketing strategy has rubbed you the wrong way
Itās a bit ironic. If we look back at the āvintageāpieces first exhibited in London (including the 5970G salmon), my guess is that these were conceived as very limited watches, intended as special pieces for some of Patekās best clients. Some of these rem...
I thought I made my opinion and thoughts clear in my post.
However Iām sorry you didnāt get my point. And am however sorry to have bored you with post after post. . I take offence at the inference that I somehow am trying to create some false market. You are entitled to your opinion and thoughts and I thank you f...
No inference about creating a āfalse marketā
And I donāt think you have any intent to sell your watch. The beauty of your 5970G salmon stands alone and could be celebrated as such. I appreciate your polite responses to my posts. I do love your watch, and have great respect for you as a collector, ev...
Ditto!!!
Thereās more than one special dial watch made in London. This 5970G salmon has been discussed more than any. This time, utilizing the 5270P as another chance to be shown.
Tahoe Blue
This is the type of comment that irks me 'to death', and I mean nothing personal toward you at all by the following: You say Patek 'does Miles a great favor...' UGH. NO, Miles does Patek a great favor buying that watch. Your comment captures the essence o...
Thank you for an interesting perspective Miles, real food for thought š§
I perhaps represent the new generation of collector, so I donāt have the same emotional affinity with the 5970 as many more longstanding collectors may do. However I see the appeal, itās a handsome, symmetrical and beautifully finished timepiece, which do...
My word. Thank you so much for a very well thought out reply.
I agree with your point on the movement of these Watches. I am a little ashamed though to admit that I have always loved the look of the front of a watch so dial, bezel, case, and lugs and always let my eyes make all my decisions for me. I am guilty of no...
Having had the conversation with Joe
It is very true that I cut my teeth on Vintage Rolex. This was my world for 15 years. Vintage Rolex guys were all about the dial case and lugs. Even the tiniest detail on a dial made all the difference. We would debate and scrutinise for days and weeks de...
Great comments and great conversation.
This is why the Purist community is the best in the Internet. Mutual respect for all opinions. Have a good weekend gentlemen. ...
Totally makes sense Miles, I see your perspective now.....
My journey began with ALS and Patek as I was drawn to complications first and foremost. Aesthetics are important to me, but a sublime movement is equally important. As I am a fairly young collector, I have never know haute horology timepieces to be reason...
Thanks. Iām sure starting with Patek makes a huge difference.
Have a great weekend. Miles.
First I would like to offer my view of your 5970G salmon dial. I have seen, MANY special dial watches, in which not only is there
a color change there is additionally a change in the configuration of the dial. Some of the changes are multiple on the same watch, eg adding one or more of Breguet numerals, luminescent markers and hands, tachometer or pulsations track, upside down moon,...
Thank you my friend.
Beautifully put. I agree with you in everything you say. Sad to see. But as the old saying goes ānothing lasts foreverā. Have a great weekend Iām just jumping on a plane for some sun. M.
IMHO...
I honestly feel the 5270 is a beautiful evolution of the 5970, a cleaner dial and configuration. Patek, IMO, has tried hard at this line, which is possibly the flagship model of the brand. I do, however, strongly agree that the 40th anniversary of the Nau...
I was fortunate enough to hokd the 5270P at Baselworld
And thought whilst it's a great watch it's not for me. PP is a commercial entity at the end of the day and needs to keep its BROADER customer base happy...Russell pretty much sums it up....They will never please everyone. We all know the 5270 was soft pri...
That dealer wants to steal your 5970 and...
then rob the next buyer. No doubt, the 5970 is vastly more valuable and collectible than the 5270. Patek began diluting its cache when it started stamping its own approval on its movements... we may have forgotten that controversy... it was a big move ver...
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